95 force suckin air

[zzreb]

wow....read a few post about engines stalling at various RPM's.....suckin air......won't idle.....so I thought I would tell my story...<br /> 95 40 horse force....mint condition.....on a 17.3 bass tracker....<br /> last fall I couldn't get her to run at idle speed......& at 5100 rpm she would stall...like she just would "run outta gas"....3 different shops later.....& 4 months....here's what has happened...<br />#1....$107.00 tune up......ha.......forget it....no better<br />#2....said #1 had the wrong plugs and had not adju. the card right.......ha,ha..$57.00...<br />#3.....number 3 shop said # 1 & #2 were both whacko.....mind you....all 3 are Merc. dealers.....anyway.....number 3 said we had the "wrong" plugs in there.....went from NGK back to Champion.....said NGK burned too hot for a Force motor.......he tuned the carb....tweaked here & there,,,,,,ran new hoses.....diaphram was re-placed......ect......same results.....river tested & all.....with me on board.......he couldn't beleive it.......he,he....<br /> 3 days later... he had swapped out the fuel tank.....put in a brand new 12 gallon....new hoses,bulb.....connectors....the works......guess what?......same results.....so he takes out the 12 gal. tank......puts a 6 gallon tank in.........hhm.....guess what.........she runs fine.......so he says......."I know what to do now".......puts the 12 gallon tank back in......goes to the local NAPA store....buys a $48 "in-line" fuel pump....mounts it about halfway between the tank & the engine connector......& guess what.....she runs like a scalded-dog @ 5200 RPM......and doesn't stall out at idle speed....least not yet...lol.......<br /> anyone ever heard of such?.......worried me to death......bout pulled my hair out....& while I'm on here......should I use NGK or Champion?.......& what octane fuel with the different plugs?<br /> I'm starting to second guess every-thing now......& I'm no "new-bie" to boats & motors.......lol......<br /> comments really appreciated......thanks, ZZ

 

[JB]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Sounds like he couldn't locate the fuel starvation cause so he overwhelmed it with added pumping power. Too bad money spent on "repairs" that don't repair isn't tax deductible. Too many techs bad mouth their competitors and try to troubleshoot problems by changing stuff (at your expense)'til the trouble goes away. You had a run of that type. Don't give up on dealer techs, most are honest and reliable. Glad your problem is fixed.<br /><br />JB

 

[zzreb]

Re: 95 force suckin air

thanks JB.......I would still like input from any intertested readers to comment on the octane & plug issue......heck......now I hear my oil/gas mixture is off.......my manual says 3 oz. per gallon.......but in other parts of it.....says 50:1.....which is what I allways have used......which is considerably less than 3 oz. per gallon......specially when ya have a larger tank.....the "spread" increases.......<br /><br />thanks......ZZ

 

[12Footer]

Re: 95 force suckin air

You may have gooey rings,ZZ. Forces are notoriously "carbony". The fact that the added fuel pump cured it,tells me the original fuel pump is not operating all propper. They run off va***m ,and if the diaphram is new, filter is clean,tank vent is venting, reedz aren't stuck open,it can only mean you have low engine compression.<br />Before you panic, let me add that Force/Chrysler motors need to be fogged at least twice a year. Reeds and rings glom-up <br />and compression falls too low to operate the pump. I use seafoam in the tank to try to keep mine clean, but it still will load-up with goo after about 80hours,after which I use Valvtect Marine Motor De-Carb right down it's intake 2x a season. I must admit,I dont use the full recommended amount of Seafoam,as the motor doesn't seem to like the stuff. Compression on your motor should be 140-160PSI with 15PSI alowable varince between cylinders.<br /><br /><br /><br />------------------<br />Time to change my tagline

 

[12Footer]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Octane= Highest available,zero achohol.<br />Plugs= Champion L76V non anode type (they foul less too).

 

[12Footer]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Hey, moderator! Enable "EDIT",and i'll stop tripple-posting !

<br />"VARINCE"=Variance in first msg. <br />"VA****M"= Vac-key-yume

 

[zzreb]

Re: 95 force suckin air

thanks 12footer......I'll look into the seafoam<br /> I have checked the compression myself......and also watched all the dealers check....& it's just like a new motor.....<br /> my opinion is that the little ole fuel pump on this model .......being the gas tank is located where it is on this type of tracker boat....just doesn't pull enuff.....<br /> I have talked to a few locals around this lake here....& they all tell me they know of several people with this type of tracker fuel system,that have had the same problem.....but usually when the fuel gets low,say1/4 tank or less.....& when I heard that.....I got to thinkin......that's when my problem would show up.......like a low pressure deal.......<br /> I know we didn't have the problem when a 6 gallon cap. tank was hooked up.....<br /> all in all....I hope this remedy holds out until I manage to get me a new 50 horse 4-stroke.....lol....

<br /> thanks again<br /> ZZ

 

[savage]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Was the 6 gallon tank positioned in the same location as the 12 gallon tank during your test? Your stock fuel pump doesn't care if it gets gas from a one gallon tank or a fifty gallon tank. Something smells fishy!

 

[zzreb]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Yep...same position......crazy isn't it.......or fishy...lol<br /> I'm "told" that it does matter what size the tank is....least with this fuel set-up......as it relates to the pressure from the fuel cell it-self......I don't know.....I'm sure you know more about this than me......<br /> all I know is that since the THIRD dealer put a NAPA in-line fuel pump on.....she runs fine....idle & top in....no stall-out at idle,and no surging at high RPM.....<br /> I was told (by the most recent mechanic)that there was a design flaw with the rig I have......the fuel pump on the motor was just not stong enough to "pull" it from the factory size tank at it's current location,when it got less than half full,and especially around a 1/4 of a tank.....& that is exactly when I would have problems......<br /> I took her out this am.....bout 11:30......ran her fast & slow......all over this 40,000 acre lake where I live......idling through channels & no-wake zones.....for as much as 15-15 minutes at a time.....then top-in for periods of an hour or more......untill about 6:00 pm this evening.......stopping once to re-fuel......& never had a problem.....so I hope it's resolved......<br /> but yer right...it does sound fishy to me also<br /><br />I just hope I don't get stranded again.....before this last visit to dealer #3.....she left me out there 3 times with-in 2 weeks......wore my trolling motor out just getting back to land.....lol......<br /> thanks for yer post......<br /> ZZ

 

[12Footer]

Re: 95 force suckin air

This may sound redundant, but loosen the cap off the culprit tank. It may be venting, but not venting enough.

 

[zzreb]

Re: 95 force suckin air

thanks 12footer...repitition is vital.......cause I do have senior moments.....and forget EVERYTHING!!!.......lol........<br /><br /> I'll post a list of "to-do" ....& this will be on it......right there on the dash board...

<br />thanks again<br /> ZZ

 

[ODDD1]

Re: 95 force suckin air

ZZ .....got a question for you....did any one check the top of the fuel tank pickup to see if it had a antisyphon valve in it? these little buggers are known to cause these types of probs.

 

[zzreb]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Good morning there......<br /><br /> yes-sir-ree.......sure did......problem was,the factory mounted tank was a 13 gallon......the new one I bought & had installed by the dealer,is a 12 gallon......<br /> we had the same problem with BOTH!<br /> But take both of them away.....drop a little 6 gallon in there......she would idle fer 2 to 3 hours before even loading up.sounds like a fuel pump or pressure problem to me.<br /><br /> ????<br /> crazy isn't it?

 

[corm]

Re: 95 force suckin air

ODDD1 has the answer to your problem. the anti motor get gas valve spring is to strong.<br />Fixed a 100+ like that.<br /><br />IMHO corm

 

[ODDD1]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Amen corm! dirty little buggers dont belong on outboards!

 

[stephenref]

Re: 95 force suckin air

zzreb,<br /><br />I am haveing a similiar problem with a 70Hp Force. <br /><br />I just shortened the fuel line, may replace it this weekend, I am going to replace the filter, and try a few other things. Could you tell me the name of the place that installed you in-line pump and the mechanic that performed the work if possible so that I may give him a call? You can reply to seswindell@yahoo.com if you want.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Steve

 

[freddie]

Re: 95 force suckin air

Hopefully one the techs whent to the water with your boat and Did one of three things:Choked engine during failure,ingested fuel into carb , squized primer bulb.It is nessasary tobe able to possatively identify afuel starvation problem from pump. Also pull spark plugs after next time out to identify even burning and correct burn!

 

[Cwr]

Re: 95 force suckin air

My question is this, I am going to try to do the same and you have, which is to put a electric fuel pump on the boat. Can you look on your fuel pump and let me know what the pressure is, so that I will not exceed what the carbuerator can handle. I too have a 1998 force 40 that has been gone over more than they law should allow, and will not get to wot and acts like it it banging out or running out of throttle at 4000 rpm, after it runs for a little while it seems to get a little more but not much, and it seems to get worse the less fuel I have in the tank. I too have tried a remote tank, but to no avail. You can do a search for my member number and see exactly the long everlasting list of problems I have had with this engine. The motor is on a spectrum bass boat which is alot like the bass tracker, the boat has been gem but the motor has been a nightmare. Any information would be helpful.