Tachs for 457HF

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 7, 2004
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210
Ok, last fall I got my 45 running decent. I had a regular Telex tach and tried all sorts of ways to get it to work. It would either work on low end be waaayyy off at top end or the other way around. Same results. The wiring diagram from a Clmer book says the white wire off the top coil is the tach circuit. Ok, thats the one I have been using. One the back of the tach there are various postions to set the tach for different motors, ie, 4p/2c, 6p/3c, etc. Using the white wire, It is getting one pulse per rev of the crankshaft, so, the 4p/2c seem like it should work, only read half thru out the whole range. Well, it doesn't quite work that way. I "Top Out" around 1200 rpm. Looking at the diagrams that come with the tach, AND previos posts on here about tachs, I see where SOME chryslers have a 20 pole alternator and should have a tach made especially for that type setup. I took the flywheel off of my 45 to see if that was the problem. I counted either 24 or 8 poles, depending on if you count individual poles, or the fact that they are wrapped in threes ( magnet on flywheel cover three at a time.) Also, pulses coming from white wire are D/ C, not A/C. Current tach diagram says approx 5-7 volts a/c to tach at idle on a setup that connect to rectifier, or 5 volts dc to setup that connects to coil. I have 45 v. a/c at idle. ( haven't tried to connect it that way yet, don't wan't to fry the tach just yet.)<br />Have I confused every one yet?<br />On an old 70 hp powerhear, I counted the poles and came up with 10, so I guess that one had the "20 pole" set up. This is getting to be a big pain in the @#$ and is also becoming an obsession with me. Any help out there?
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: Tachs for 457HF

The white wire is an Ignition signal if I'm not mistaken and won't work with the tach you have. That uses a signal from the battery charging circuit. Sounds weird, but the alternators are direct drive on outboards and the signal is quite accurate. If you have Magneto ignition, you're sunk. If it's electronic ignition, then it should have an alternator under the flywheel instead of coils and points. Two leads from the alternator connect to a rectifier. You would get your signal from either of those two wires.
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

WillyB, This 45 is a battery, ign, .. Each spark plug has it's own coil, points and condenser. It has an alternator with either 24 or 8 poles. Like I posted earlier, the a/c voltage is quite a bit higher than what the Telex instructions said I should be looking for. I read in another post about loose or corroded connections causing hih voltages.. Next time I'm at the boat, I'll check all connections.<br /> Oh, a bit more info.... At approx half throttle, the dc voltage is around 13.8 to 14.2 volts.
 

Jcrain

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Oct 7, 2004
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210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

All connections are tight and clean, no loose or corrosion any where
 

Jcrain

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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

All connections are tight and clean, no loose or corrosion any where
 

eurolarva

Rear Admiral
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Jun 24, 2003
Messages
4,182
Re: Tachs for 457HF

I am not an expert on this however I have a theory. If you look on the terminal strip there should be a purple wire. On one side the purple wire will come from the wiring harness. If your motor has a rectifier there should be another purple wire going to the rectifier. If the spot on your terminal strip is empty you dont have a rectifier.<br /><br />A rectifier is composed of four diodes that will allow only one side of AC (Alternating current to pass) in the ideal world. However diodes allow about .7 volts to pass in the reverse direction. On a motor where the rectifier is used to charge the battery there will be about 14VDC (Volts Direct current) with a 1.4 volt peak to peak AC voltage riding on it. The tach that you have is probably for hooking up to this voltage where the maximum DC volts it will see is 14 and the tach reads the small 1.4 volt ac signal to trigger the tach to give you RPM. My guess is if your motor does not have a rectifier the tach will not work. What you would need I believe they call an inductive Tach that is placed next to the flywheel with a strip of reflective material attached to the flywheel. As the flywheel spins the reflective material trips the sensor and gives you RPM.
 

BrettNC

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Feb 6, 2005
Messages
298
Re: Tachs for 457HF

That's true Eurolava, but I think most tachometers use the raw alternating current from the generator (purple wires) before it is rectified. <br /><br />The white wire is a different signal that was used only for the original equipment tachometer. Almost all aftermarket tachometers are alternator driven and will not use the white wire.
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

I got the tach a bit closer to the ballpark by using the purple "generator" wire (per the terminal strip on the engine.) Idle is around 1000 and wot is around 4500. How accurate are the Tiny Tachs? I may need to get one to zero in on the correct rpms.
 

BrettNC

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Feb 6, 2005
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Re: Tachs for 457HF

That sounds about right Jcrain. I don't think that there is any need to go any farther.
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

I ordered a Tiny Tach. Just the sound of the idle doesn't sound right. The tach reads 1000 rpm, but the engine sounds closer to 500-600 rpm, just a tad above the dying stage. And, the WOT is questionable because it wasn't in gear at the time but it was in a barrel. The Teleflex Tach is set on the 6P setting and I'm not sure if that is correct. If the Tiny Tach is accurate, then I'll be able, I hope, to set the idle and WOT to the book settings.<br />Anybody using a Tiny Tach? Are the pretty accurate? The web page swears that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I'd swear that too if I were selling them.
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

No luck yet on the "Tiny Tach. Ordered it from thier web page 11 days ago, they charged my credit card the next day, but haven't recieved it yet. I called and they said they would check and get back with me. That was 5 days ago. Anybody else dealt with them? What type of service did you get?
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

Tiny Tach finaly arrived. I compared it to the Teleflef tach and the closet I can get the Teleflex is on the 5p setting. The Teleflex is about 30-50 rpms lower than the Tiny Tach thru- out the whole range. There is a cal adj slot on the Teleflex that I will piddle with tomorrow to see if I can get them to match up.<br /> Euro Larva, you had asked about hooking up a tach for your 35. Here's my setup. Teleflex Tach ( one size fits all) hooked to the PURPLE wire (clymore ande terminal strip on engine calls it the generator circuit) and set tach to 5p.<br /> Hope this helps you.
 

eurolarva

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
4,182
Re: Tachs for 457HF

Thanks for posting that Jcrain. It will help others doing a search for tachs on chryslers. I have a 45 that I fear is on its last legs. Be careful removing screws that have been on a motor for over 30 years. It can be fatel.
 

Jcrain

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Tachs for 457HF

Sorry to hear about the 45. THey are good engines. I've learned a lot since aquiring mine. I usually run it on the lake more than the rest of my stable.
 
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