Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

[roscoe]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

100 degree hot water? Brrrr!!!<br /><br />I have warning label on my faucets. <br />"Caution!! This is REAL hot water" <br /><br />Nothing should bypass the main box, with the possible exception of a line that feeds another box, i.e. for the garage.<br /><br />Is someone??(teenager) using hot water to do the laundry??<br /><br />If you buy the cheap powdered detergent like me, you can dissolve the detergent in a half gallon of hot water, then ad it to the cold water in the washer.<br /><br />Is the next door neighbor running an extension cord over to your place?

 

[Homerr]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

The water heater was replaced when I bought this house from my parents in 1999/2000.<br /><br />Since then I have replaced almost all plumbing and fixtures. There is a new pump in the well, all new pipe etc... Even a new pressure tank.<br />There is no leaking water as far as I know.<br /><br />I had to replace a heater element about a year ago, but when I did, I replaced them both with stainless steel elements. The factory elements weren't the best.<br />I have my own well, and hard water that comes with it, so I'm guessing that the minerals are wreaking havoc on the tank anyway.<br />My parents ran their tank for 20+ years before I replaced it.<br /><br />I haven't noticed any water heating problems, so I can assume the elements are fine?<br /><br />And no, my neighbors aren't an issue. I live in the country. My closest neighbors are quite a ways off.<br /><br />I'm still wondering if the meter itself has a problem. I'm formally requesting a re-calibration or replacement of the meter.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />H.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Really, the only reason your meter should run backwards is if you're putting power into the grid.<br /><br />It would be the first time I've heard of it, but I agree, get the meter checked!<br />Tell them that it runs backwards sometimes. That'll get their attention!<br /><br />140+ degree hot water is the only way to go.

 

[Homerr]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

So, if I'm putting power back into the lines, would that run my bill up?<br /><br />H.

 

[parrotthead04]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

have you checked your voltage with a meter? You said you live out in the country. Could be a low voltage problem. Check it with no load then check it with the water heater and/ or electric dryer runnung. it should only drop a couple volts....if any. Things work alot harder when low on voltage. Its a common problem in rural areas. I'v also run across it caused by a bad transformer at the pole. Does the meter continue to run backwards or just for a minute?

 

[Homerr]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

It ran backward when there was no load on the heater. The meter barely moved. <br />If I were to guess, it would run backward about the same pace as a single light bulb would run.<br /><br />When the elements kicked on, the meter ran forward as normal.<br /><br />I did check the voltage, and I didn't see any noticable drop under load/no-load.<br /><br />H.

 

[parrotthead04]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

 

[nailbender2155]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

HOMERR: you say that you still have power on some things when you turn off the main breakers?? like what?? everything should be dead !! where do you think that powers coming from? if its not coming through the meter and its on all the time,,that could be the source of your trouble. even if it isn't it shouldn't be there anyway,,you could electrocute yourself or even start a fire someday.

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Homerr I've been thinking about this a while and I've seen some weird problems with service power but never heard of a meter running backwards. I think you should have a good look at your grounding system. Do you have two good ground rods in damp earth at least six feet apart connected to your ground buss with #6 min. wire? Do you have a similar ground wire from the ground buss or neutral buss running to a clamp or two on your main water entrance? Are the ground and neutral bonded to each other in your main panel? If your grounds are solid, have the utility check theirs at the transformer and from the transformer to your house. A faulty or missing ground can cause voltage and metering problems particularily if the transformer ground is at fault.<br /><br />You have a 100A breaker box with 1 main right? What's tapped ahead of the main? Do you have additional breaker boxes with mains in them? Are they bonded to ground the same way I described above?<br /><br />Are you on an overhead service? Are there tree branches or anything else interfering with the lines? Have you or anyone been shooting anything off the lines with a rifle? <br /><br />What is your exact voltage at each main lug with everything off and then with some or all loads on? Finally what are the voltages with all two-pole (240volt) breakers off but some or all other loads on?<br /><br />With a bad ground your current from 120volt loads cannot get to earth and so travels through your bonding system and onto the path of the opposing 120 volt leg (backwards) through lights or appliances that are on and back to the utility trans. via the meter effectively making a round trip like a 240 volt load. You may be metered twice for the energy or at least inaccurately. If you got an elec. engineer out there I bet he'd start by looking at the grounding.

 

[Homerr]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Whew!<br /><br />Let me get back to you on this Calico...<br />Thanks for the great information.<br /><br />I'm not sure why I have power when I turn my main off. That one has me very concerned.<br />I have another breaker box, but it's tied to the main box. The second box runs an addition on my house (a bathroom and bedroom - I don't know why it was done this way)<br /><br />I REALLY want to rip the old breaker box out and start over with a 200 amp box, but that would mean I need to pull the meter. It wouldn't be hard to do and I like doing that kind of work anyway.<br /><br />If I pull the meter, I have to break the seal (padlock).<br />I don't dare tell the power company I'm doing this because they'd have the permit gurus knocking on my door.<br />Than again, maybe I can do the work, and play stupid if they question the broken seal?<br />All the work would be done in the house out-of-site unless I put a new meter socket in... I wonder what they would say if I did that?<br /><br />I'm pretty sure I have 2 ground rods out there, but I'll check anyway.<br /><br />The guy who originally built this place was...how shall I say... "Challenged" - based on his handy-work around the rest of the house. <br /><br />UPDATE:<br /><br />I did some digging around on my breaker box, and it isn't as ascent as I thought. I found a barely legible tag that said it can be used for 200 amp service, so I guess I'm fine as far as that is concerned.<br />The power company wanted me to replace the meter socket and all of that on the outside so they could put in a larger transformer etc...<br /><br />I'm going to call the power company tomorrow and tell them I need to pull that meter in the next few weeks so I can find out why the main isn't killing everything as well as the possible ground issue. Hopefully they won't sick the dogs on me.<br /><br />H.

 

[ezbtr]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Originally posted by SBN:<br />

Originally posted by crab bait:<br />pretty wild..!!<br /><br />in rural england.. you still have to put coins in the meter for electric..

I seen a bed once you had to put money in.

yup ,25 for 5 mins I beleive???? Longgggggggg ago

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Homerr, You should not pull that meter yourself. The power co. WILL come down on you hard. As far as them wanting you to replace the socket etc. they are trying to make you responsible for their lack of equipment I think. That socket was installed according to thier specs years ago (how long ago BTW?) and they need to be equipped to maintain anything they installed as long as you haven't made changes to the service that render thier equipment inadequate. If you upgrade your service you will need to upgrade your socket. You also will need a permit, the power co. will not reconnect without an inspection by the municipality. There are some issues that may need covering to bring your house up to "minimum housing act" standards but the municipality cannot hold you responsible for what a previous owner or electricians have done to your house. If you go ahead with the permit try and get an inspector out there before you begin so that he can see that you are working with a mess and will only be improving the situation.<br /><br />You can assemble the new service alongside the old one or in a new location and temporarily power it as a sub-panel from the existing service and take your time rewiring everything into the new. Of course get your permit first. This way when you're done the power co. can disconnect and reconnect within an hour or so and you don't have to work in the dark.<br /><br />You mentioned your box is rated for 200 amps. What brand is it and does it have a 100 amp main? You can probably get a new panel, socket and breakers for less than the cost of a replacement 200A interior for your existing service, especially if it is an uncommon panel. You would also need to replace your service entrance conductors and grounds. And then we're back to replacing that meter socket anyway so all new is the way to go.<br /><br />If the box is in good shape (other than the ratsnest) and you're not drawing near or over 80 amps with all of your loads on you might not need the upgrade. A lot of people put in the 200 Amp service just to get more breaker spaces but they have gas heat and gas hot water, a 2 ton AC and an electric range. Really nothing that justifies the bigger service. New houses almost always get the 200A just because it only costs a couple of bucks more than a 100A during new construction. Then again I've been in giant houses where the cooling and lighting loads are so great that a 320 or 400 Amp service almost isn't enough and the utility transformer can't deliver during hard starting loads!<br /><br />Anyway be careful with that electricity and at the very least protect your eyes whenever you have that panel cover off.<br /><br />By the way, how did that carport turn out?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

100 degrees on the hot water heater is too cold. I keep mine set around 130, it is enough.

 

[dhammann]

Re: Power meter faulty? Any utility gurus in the house?

Your meter trying to run backwards is a good indication that the “brakes” are working. Yes, a kilowatt meter has brake coils which energize when there is a decrease in load. This is to prevent inertia (flywheel effect) which could cause the meter to register more than actual wattage used. Meters are generally accurate to 2% in you favor, the reason for this is that the government is very serious when it comes to measuring devices used for trade. Of course, the utility companies factor in this deficit when negotiating rates with the utility commission (which is legal). A few possibilities for a higher than normal bill could be that some utilities read the meter every other month or even quarterly, then have to adjust up or down on the next bill. Also, if you are on a well pump, check for a waterlogged tank. You have the right to demand a new meter from the power company but they will test your old meter and bill YOU if it is not in error. There is an adjustment on meters to prevent “creeping” when no power is being consumed. Normally this adjusted in your favor so it takes at least 15 or 20 watts of power to make the meter spin