Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

UpstNYer · Jun 14, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Naw, no troll Lubedude. Got a lotta respect for you guys. You all have helped me in the past and I look forward to your posts on any subject. Maybe this will explain: UpstNYer:hydrogen fuel cells = ForkTail:ETec Just don't think they are the solution everyone hopes they are. Sort of hoping some NASA type who works with these things will step into the thread and set either me or the others straight. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...it's happened before. Bob

kd6nem · Jun 15, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

I'm still hearing seemingly legitimate questions about hydrogen's viability for technical reasons. Time and ingenuity may solve them- I hope. Procucing the H2 takes a bunch of energy, though. In the big picture not nearly as energy efficient as hydro carbon based fuels because of production efforts required, I would guess. The hybrids get nowhere near the economy claimed. They are a essentially a farce conceived by politics, IMO. Electric only does require fuel somewhere to be burned unless from a nuke, solar, wind, or hydro-electric source. Those are minor players, though. Modern power plants are pretty efficient and quite clean. Battery technology can't really say the same, though. Not enough range for most commuters. Too expensive to replace the batteries, also. JD has a great point about biodiesel. That could easily work, and be environmentally friendly, as well as good for US & Canadian agriculture. Just requires fuel pre-heat and usually starting (and shutdown) on petro diesel. Many new state of the art ultra high pressure diesel injection systems will self destruct under the greater viscosity, though. We don't have enough diesel vehicles in the non commercial fleet to be able to really roll this out enough for it to gain acceptance. I'd try it if I could find a suitable vehicle. I don't need a full sized pickup; unfortunately that is nearly all that is currently available.

ndemge · Jun 16, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

My brother just got a new HD2500 Diesel ...for some reason he doesn't want to convert a $40k truck to veggy.... crazy kids

JB · Jun 16, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Just read that the "SMART", owned and marketed by Daimler-Chrysler, has a turbo-Diesel Hybrid model on sale in Europe that gets over 70mpg. Tiny little car, would remind us old timers of the BMW Isetta of the 50s. It's about as long as a typical car is wide, so it can park in motorcycle parking spots. They said a larger version suitable for highway driving(only 60mpg

) will be road tested in the US this year.

DJ · Jun 16, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

The averrage american will not accept a diesel, at this point. Yes, you all that drag around your toys like your turbo diesel powwered trucks. They're great. However, 25 year old Jennifer will not accept the noise, or the smell. To fly, it (diesel) has to be abosuletely transparent to the consumer. All of the major automakers have diesels ready to drop into almost every vehicle in their line ups. They would, if we'd buy them but, as stated, we won't.

ZmOz · Jun 16, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Originally posted by DJ: All of the major automakers have diesels ready to drop into almost every vehicle in their line ups. They would, if we'd buy them but, as stated, we won't.

Pretty much every american vehicle has a diesel counterpart in other countries. Not only do they have the engines "ready to drop in", but they've already dropped them. Part of the problem is the diesel in the US contains more sulfer than other countries...

rwise · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

With diesel its the smell I dont like, I could live with the noise! Hybrids, maybe someday, they are just not ready at this point, they would have to do much more than 30-60 mpg. Get them to 150-200 mpg and watch them sell!

JB · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Modern common-rail, direct injected turboDiesels are very close to transparent to the consumer. Read the road tests of the Mercedes E320 CDI. Quick, quiet luxury car that gets 37mpg, or the VW Passat TDI for a lot less bux. I have owned three Mercedes Diesels of the old, noisy, gutless, smelly variety. Loved them all. Last forever (315,000 on the last one when I sold it) and all delivered over 30mpg routinely.

steam_mill · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

I think we have to end our obsession with acceleration! The V8 powered SUV gets horrible mileage. Is it really necessary to to 0 to 60 in under 8 seconds? With the right gearing, most vehicles good perform remarkably well with engines with significantly less power. A 302 with 300 horsepower in an Escalade. How about dropping 3.0 V6 that will consume one third less fuel, one third less emissions? It always boggles my mind about engine options. I drive a Subie Outback 2.5 L 4. 164 horses. I cruise at 90 MPH all the time. Get about 27 MPG. Not great but better than my other option of an SUV at 20 MPG. I always wonder why a flat 6 is offerred with 50 more horse. Performance gains are negligible while gas mileage decreases.\ I've always looked for vehicles for my needs: Need AWD for winter cottage access and ability for 2000 lbs. towing capacity. My subie does it. I see so many SUV's that never ever leave the city. Why? If everyone would use a vehicle as a vehicle and not a status symbol, I think cars could have lesser powerplants, burn less fuel and less pollutants. Jus my opinion..... Joe

JB · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Everybody to his own priorities, SM. I drive a V8 All Activity Vehicle with AWD, 5,000lb. towing capacity. I get 20mpg, tow up to 3500lb, go places that the Outback would bottom out and enjoy a vehicle I can enter and exit without folding my elderly frame or, worse, unfolding it. I sit high enough off the road that I can see much more than in daughter's Outback H6(which fits HER priorities exactly). If folks disagree on things that doesn't make either of them wrong.

DJ · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Why do we need SUV's? We don't. That's the beauty of living in a capitalist/free (for now) nation. Most others in the world, except the super rich, have no choices. Be greatful for what you have. As I said previously, most of the automakers have other powertrain options avaialble and ready for installation in curerent models. We, as consumwers, do not want them.

LubeDude · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Amazing how far this post has gone. My boss bought a Ford Excursion in 02, V10, got 8 MPG. Actually needed it to tow a an inclosed car trailer to car shows. I got about 6-7 MPG towing. Because he has a close friend that owns the local Ford dealership, this year he traded for a new one with the diesel. This vehicle is the exact same vehicle, even the same color. It gets an average of 18-20 MPG, and tows the trailer better than the other one. He couldnt be happier. 16-18 towing. This road hog gets better mileage than my Ford 4 liter Ranger 4X4. You cant hear the diesel at cruising speeds, and just barely around town. The new diesels with the converters actually do not smell nearly as bad as the old, and they smoke very little. Im pretty impressed with this vehicle.

UpstNYer · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Diesel SUVs...now you're talkin'. A match made in heaven. Old '94 Dodge 2500 with CTD gets 26mpg running around empty; 18mpg pulling 6500 lbs at 75mph. And it never asks for mercy. Had to see it to believe it.

JasonJ · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

My work truck is an Isuzu NPR turbo diesel, one of those cab-over flatbed 1 ton jobs. Even with 500 gallons of chem (4000-ish lbs) in the tanks it still gets about 20 mpg, and the engine is a little 4 banger, 4.3 liters I believe, with an automatic tranny. My Ford F150 gets 16-18 mpgs with a 351 in it. I would switch to diesel in a heartbeat if the right deal came along.

ZmOz · Jun 17, 2004

Re: Hybrid, Gas Electric cars.

Originally posted by steam_mill: I think we have to end our obsession with acceleration! The V8 powered SUV gets horrible mileage. Is it really necessary to to 0 to 60 in under 8 seconds?

Yes, alot of people DO want good acceleration. If you can afford it, and it's available, why not? I spend alot of time in my car, I'm sure as hell not going to buy something slow just because it pollutes less. The people that don't want it are already driving smaller displacement, slower cars like you are. There aren't many people that are happy with that. One of the main reasons big SUVs are popular here and not in other countries is gas prices. Believe it or not, gas here is actually CHEAP!

In most areas of europe they pay $5-8 a gallon. Raise the price on gas here that much, you'll see all the SUVs disappear. I also feel alot safer driving my big old jeep than I would in a little japanese car made of foil. I wrecked my Cherokee pretty bad in December. I walked away with a little wiplash. If I was driving a little car, I KNOW they would have been peeling me out with the jaws of life. I think as Americans we've earned the right to drive big old trucks and SUVs with V8s if we so desire. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna give up that right just to save a couple gallons of gas...

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