I gotta oil question too.........

craze1cars

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These are so much fun.<br /><br />Seriously, though. Here's something to ponder...with the cost of a barrel of oil shooting through the roof, does it not make sense that maybe synthetic oils are the way to go for just about everything?<br /><br />Now let's try not to fight about this, let's save your boxing gloves for the 100:1 thread on the outboard forum. But my general ideas about synthetics in general is this:<br /><br />They burn cleaner (2 strokes)...better for the air.<br />They lubricate better...better for the engine.<br />They can last longer between oil changes...more convenient.<br />They're generally "slipperier"...better fuel mileage.<br />They can reduce (ever so slightly) our dependance on foreign oil...better for the US economy.<br />And now, with the price gap ever narrowing due to oil prices going up, theoretically the price of oil should have no impact on the price of synthetics, right?...do you think maybe they'll be better for our pocketbook soon?<br /><br />I'm just thinking out loud here. Now go ahead and tear my theory to pieces....<br /><br />I'll throw this in just for JB. SAVE THE WORLD...AND THE FPPE...BUY MOBIL 1 (or any other non-purple synthetic)!! :D
 

ZmOz

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Isn't synthetic still made from crude? Regular oil prices around here haven't gone up...yet.
 

craze1cars

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

If they did, I can't imagine why it would be called "synthetic," but I guess I don't specifically know the answer to that. My educated quess is no, it's not made from crude.
 

LubeDude

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Originally posted by ZmOz:<br /> Isn't synthetic still made from crude? Regular oil prices around here haven't gone up...yet.
Right now, its hard to tell what you are getting with the courts telling Castrol that they can call there Syntech stuff a synthetic when its not, its just highly refined crude. Not a bad oil, but over priced for what it is. Many manufactures are now jumping on the bandwagon because of cost.<br /><br />Synthetic oils are not "slipperier"... contrary to popular belief.
 

Boomyal

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

LubeDude, if they are not slipperier they are at least 'wetter'. <br /><br />Don't you remember when oil came in cardboard cans with metal lids? (circa '70's) Amsoil could not package their oil in those cans because it leak out all over every thing. They actually packed it in all metal cans. I still have one of them except it is for the transmission fluid.
 

LubeDude

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> LubeDude, if they are not slipperier they are at least 'wetter'. <br /><br />
Lets say ther are "Creepier". :D
 

JB

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Just don't kill FPPEs to get it.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

I'll bite JB, What's a FPPE?<br /><br />And sythethics have been known for years to leak out of engines where conventional oil would not. So is is molecularly smaller?<br /><br />And in the name of the almighty profit, as dino oil increses in cost, if the synthetic manuf's think they can gouge the consumer, you can bet the sythetic oils will increase in price too.
 

LubeDude

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Originally posted by David L. Moore:<br /> So is is molecularly smaller?<br /><br />
Kinda true, and they are all the same size, which is why it seems sliperier and causes less friction.<br /><br />That statement makes it sound like its sliperier. :confused: <br /><br />Now Im going to have to find where I heard that its not. :eek:
 

Triton II

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

ZmOz, yes, as far as I know synthetics are made from crude. Ester bases are chemically refined crude oil, so even 100% synthetic oils are actually based on crude. Here in Australia I was threatened with a court case by a large American owned oil company after writing an article in one of our motorcycle magazines as a result of visiting the Motorex factory in Switzerland. The American company's advertising campaign was based on a very famous (in Australia) racing driver saying "normal oils come from the ground and are dirty - I won't use them! I use MXXXL 1 synthetic" implying he lived happily ever after. Happily for me my article was properly researched and the case was dropped by M*B*L (E#X@n).<br />If someone can actually prove me wrong I'd be VERY happy, but no-one has yet managed to do so. I am NOT an oil expert, however when I worked as a professional journalist I did the hard yards to get the facts so I stand by what a write and I only use accredited sources.<br />So please oil doctor, Lube Dude etc, get together and tell us who from the various oil companies can give us facts rather than marketing hype on this question:<br />"Are ALL synthetic oils based on crude oil or are they manufactured from scratch?"
 

craze1cars

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Originally posted by David L. Moore:<br /> I'll bite JB, What's a FPPE?<br /><br />
Flying Purple People Eater, of course. You have apparently missed a couple of the more recent oil threads...<br /><br />You're missing very little, it's a continuation of a goofy joke. ;)
 

dolluper

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

First real synthetic oil was developed in Ottawa at NRC [national research council] it was made from garbage not crude
 

ae708

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

I thought that the Germans developed synthetic lubricants back in WWI or II because they didn't have access to much crude and had to go in this direction for lubes for their war machines.....?
 

monoshock

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Originally posted by ae708:<br /> I thought that the Germans developed synthetic lubricants back in WWI or II because they didn't have access to much crude and had to go in this direction for lubes for their war machines.....?
True, saw that one on the History Channel. :)
 

TheOilDoc

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

"Are ALL synthetic oils based on crude oil or are they manufactured from scratch?"
All synthetic oils that I know of are made by cracking petroleum bases and making olefins from the ethylene. There are several ways to do that (Ziegler process, Shell process, Chevron process, etc.) Most synthetic esters are made from natural plant and animal fats, and there are synthetic oils that use these esters. New methods of producing olefins are currently being derived from a natural gas-to liquid process, utilizing the byproduct of the petroleum process.
 

Dunaruna

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

TOD & LD, can you explain type 1, type 2, type 3, type 4, type 5 please?<br /><br />Isn't type 5 FULLY syn (AKA - MobilOne)?<br /><br />I've been told that 3, 4 and 5 can be reffered too as 'Synthetic', even though 3 & 4 are not.<br /><br />Aldo
 

tommays

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

at least this time i am learning soemthing on this one ;) <br /><br />and now i understand why MOBIL 1 leaked out of my ford van like a wounded animal 20 years ago when i tried it :eek: <br /><br /><br />tommays
 

TheOilDoc

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Re: I gotta oil question too.........

Oil grouping is generally misunderstood because it is somewhat confusing. Oil groups do not define better-to-worse categories or types of processing or refining.<br /><br />Oil groups are based on interchangeability guidelines and determined by the base oil's sulfur content, saturates, and viscosity index. This is to ensure that the oil's performance is not adversely affected by substitution of one base oil for another (performance is actually tested on actual engines in a laboratory using ASTM standards). <br /><br />Group I base stocks contain less than 90% saturates and/or greater than .03% sulfur with a viscosity index greater or equal to 80 and less than 120.<br /><br />Group II base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90% saturates and/or less than or equal to .03% sulfur with a viscosity index greater or equal to 80 and less than 120.<br /><br />Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90% saturates less than or equal to .03% sulfur with a viscosity index greater or equal to 120.<br /><br />Group IV base stocks are PAO (polyalphaolephins)<br /><br />Group V base stocks include all other base stocks not included in Groups I, II, III, and IV.<br /><br />"Synthetic" does not necessarily mean a Group IV polyalphaolephin or a Group V ester. Several years ago some PAO oil manufacturers tried to define that term with their oil in hopes of cornering the market. The courts decided not to have certain oil companies define what "synthetic oil" meant, particularly since many highly refined group III oils exhibited similar properties to PAO oils. This is why today we see some oils mixed with PAO's and some highly refined Group III's being called synthetic.<br /><br />One person might say that all motor oils are synthetic, because they are man-made from crude. Others might say synthetic oils are only those that do not come from petroleum, like some group V esters. Others would claim synthetics are those man-made from the refined ethylene (PAO). And still others would call synthetics highly refined Group III's. But unfortunately synthetic oils don't really have a definition or specification, particulary with regard to engine performance and ASTM standards.<br /><br />Most reputable oils today are of extremely high quality, exceeding the API and engine manufacturer's specifications. During the late 1990's and early 2000's refining processes allowed group III oils to nearly mirror the performance characteristics of synthetics. Consumers really benefit here because of the higher costs associated with PAO synthetics.
 
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