Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

[dhammann]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Your right, electric heat is 100% efficient, meaning that all the electric energy is converted to heat energy. Here is the interesting part, heat pumps DO NOT convert electrical energy into heat. Heat pumps TRANSFER heat energy from the air outside of your home. Since the air outside your home belongs to you, you are only paying to TRANSFER this “free” heat energy into your home.. Unless, of course, the aux heat strips come on.

 

[levittownnick]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Scientifically speaking electric heat is 100% efficient BUT if efficiency is defined as Dollars per BTU, then it becomes the Least efficient heat.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

wonder how long before enough people start using geothermal heat pumps that the price of that technology starts dropping....<br /><br />Given the jumps in prices for gas, oil, and electricity, at some point it seems like it's almost gonna be a no-brainer in places that have long periods of extreme temps (hot or cold)....

 

[EZLoader]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Ken, <br />The fact your heat pump is running all the time is that your house is cold...why is that? In my experience in the home building/marketing business, a continual running furnace/heat pump is caused 99% of the time because of missing insulation and sealing which allows cold air to enter into and hot air to leave out of your home. Over the years I've met many folks who complained about the same thing. After a few minutes of looking around their place I've found furnace ducts totally disconnected, big areas of little or no insulation in attics and/or crawlspaces, huge cold air drafts/hot air leaks around fireplaces and heating/exhaust vents, plumbing and electrical outlets, etc. After making simple, inexpensive fixes (insulation, proper caulking, rehookup of ducting, etc.) their heating problems totally went away. <br /><br />You need to investigate all of this. Seal up all the cold drafts you can find around the house. Crawl up into your attic and down into your crawlspace (if you have one). Check that your heating ducts are not totally damaged or disconnected and just blowing your expensive hot air outdoors. <br /><br />Also check and clean your furnace filter to increase its efficiency. <br /><br />A typical professional furnace clean and service in my area is $100. It might be worth having yours looked at.<br /><br />Last Sunday, a client called to complain his upstairs was getting no heat at all. He had scheduled a serviceman to come out later in the week for a quoted $300 inspection and service. I went over and found that his main upstairs furnace duct in the garage was shut off. I flipped the duct's baffle switch to open and his upstairs was instantly warm and toasty. <br /><br />Most household problems can be traced to a simple cause. 40 degrees shouldn't require your furnace to run all the time. My guess is you have inadequate or improper insulation and leaks as discussed above. Good luck!

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Originally posted by Big Dee:<br /> Your right, electric heat is 100% efficient, meaning that all the electric energy is converted to heat energy. Here is the interesting part, heat pumps DO NOT convert electrical energy into heat. Heat pumps TRANSFER heat energy from the air outside of your home. Since the air outside your home belongs to you, you are only paying to TRANSFER this “free” heat energy into your home.. Unless, of course, the aux heat strips come on.

That's dead-on brutha...most heat pumps transfer "free" heat from the air outside, and geothermals transfer the free heat from the ground. Unfortunately there ain't much heat in 10 degree outside air...that's why air-to-air heatpumps need help when it gets cold out. But the geothermals are transferring from 55 degree ground that's way below any frost lines. So there's a LOT OF heat there to be had, 365 days a year.<br /><br />As a continuation of the "efficiency" term that's so commonly used to describe gas furnaces, I learned in my geothermal research that their marketing departments like to brag that if the typical geothermal system was measured in the same way, it would be rated somewhere between 350% and 400% efficient in the winter. How? Because you're transferring "free" energy from the earth, which is acting as a massive solar collector. So it takes 1 unit of electricity to produce 3.5 to 4 units of heat. <br /><br />And when compared with SEER ratings of air conditioners, most of today's are 10, soon to be 13. But a geothermal system in the summer is supposed to be somewhere between 17 and 26 SEER depending on how you screw with the numbers.<br /><br />It's all marketing hype, but I'm sure there's some truth to it.<br /><br />Incidentally, with regards to the cost of geothermal, it financially makes sense NOW...ESPECIALLY if you're looking at new construction, or rolling the costs into a full refinance of your existing home. Example: Figure a new conventional system upfront install costs at $4K, geothermal at $10K. So the additional $6K or so added to a 30 year 6.5% mortgage will add about $38 per month over the life of the loan. I PROMISE you that you will save a lot more than $38 per month on your electric/gas bill IMMEDIATELY. So you have INSTANT positive cash flow. And a few years from now as energy rates continue to rise? The savings spread will grow significantly. And then there's resale value. I'll also add that I'm also getting my electricity at a reduced rate due to incentives from my electric company, AND my property taxes will drop about $350 to $400 per year forever due to incentives from the state. And I just found out that next year the feds are getting into the action and will be offering income tax credits for geothermal installations...I missed out on that one. But ANYONE who is seriously needing new heating/cooling equipment should check this out and not be scared by a high install cost. I'm really kicking myself for not buying into it 10 years ago...but glad I have it now.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

heat pumps were really designed for the warmer climates. set your thermostat and leave it alone. don't look at the temperature on the thermostat, set where you and your family are comfortable (those numbers mean nothing because they are not usually accurate). when it gat really cold the aux. strips will automatically kick in and out as necessary to keep you comfortable. as ron popiel says set it and forget it. if for some reason you outside condensing unit goes down. switch to EMERGENCY heat. this will activate the aux. strips. de activate the condenser, so you don't due any more damage to it. in other words if you use EMERGENCY heat all you are using is strips, which is let heating with stove with all burners and the oven on. retire fla building contractor.

 

[tomatolord]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

have to agree with tashas dad - heat pumps were not meant for the "energy saving" thermostats where they turn the temps down when you are away.<br /><br />We have a duel heat unit gas/heat pump, where the aux heat is gas - so we let it kick on the gas to heat the house, it is amazing how much hotter the gas heat is versus the heat pump heat.<br /><br /><br />Now I may look into one of those geothermal units....

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

craze, how much electricity does it take to run your geo system? I assume it needs elec to circulate the liquid through the underground pipes, run the heat transfer unit, and run the house blowers. does it require 220V?<br /><br />or, maybe what i'm really trying to get at is how easily can you run the system off of a generator (& how big a generator) if you lose electrical power?

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

I have no idea if it'd run off a generator, I don't have one. But here's what I see:<br /><br />The entire system is running off of a 35 amp 220V breaker. And there's numbers on the sticker that split the power down between all the different components (circulation pump for outside loop, desuperheater circulation pump for the hot water, compressor, variable speed fan, and computer control units). Looks like it all adds up to about 21 to 23 amps during normal use depending on what parts are running at what time, likely with short surges beyond that when each component kicks in.<br /><br />It also has 10,000 watts of backup heat coils installed on a separate 60 amp breaker. However they have never kicked in except for when I cranked up the thermostat 10 degrees at one time. I remember the house stunk like all the dust was burning off of 'em so that tells me that was the first time they were ever used. So I'm sure if the backup kicked in for some unknown reason while running on a generator, something would likely pop...<br /><br />Here's the site for what I bought: www.waterfurnace.com<br />You'll see they mfr a TON of products far beyond my very simple conventional forced-air system. Commercial systems, hydronic (which are geothermal radiant heat boilers which are becoming pouplar in extremely cold climates in new construction), a LOT of state-of-the-art stuff.<br />You can download owner's and installation manuals from their site for any of their products, I'm sure all the specs are there. For comparison, mine is an E Series 035, 3 ton model that seems appropriately sized for my 3,000 sq foot home in Indiana.<br /><br />Man...I sound like a salesman, don't I? I swear I am not affiliated with this company or the industry. Just a customer who is VERY pleased with this product.

 

[imported_bjs]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

you dont have natural gas from were ever you live?natural gas is the only way to heat any home or grage.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Originally posted by racer 15:<br /> you dont have natural gas from were ever you live?natural gas is the only way to heat any home or grage.

To answer both the question and the comment.<br /><br />1. No. Depending on which source you read, approx 55% to 70% of the homes in the US have NG available to hook up to. The rest have to use alternatives.<br />2. I respectfully disagree. ESPECIALLY this winter. I agree that natural gas was a fairly cost-effective way to heat homes 'till somewhere around Y2K, but it is no longer. It appears that a combination of the high price of gas and newer technologies is now beginning to render it obsolete as a home heating source. Come back in Feb and we can compare heating bills if you'd like some numbers to back up my observation...

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

I wish my house had backup gas heat. Sadly, there isnt any gas in my neighborhood.<br /><br />Ken

 

[cajun555]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Natural gas is not the way to go. Back in Oct. lit the the pilot on the furnace, fired up the unit just long enuff to burn the dust off the heat exchanger. Got my gas bill for the month and it was 43.00. Same for Nov., 43.00. <br /><br />The only thing I have on gas is w/heater and furnace. Before I lit the furnace gas bill was only 19 dollars so it cost me 24 dollars to run the pilot light on furnace.<br /><br />ITS GOING TO BE A LONG COLD WINTER!!!

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

cajun...<br /><br />You have a pilot? Maybe I'm wrong as I'm not in the business, but I thought those became obsolete LONG ago. Every furnace I've seen installed in the past 20 years or more has electronic spark ignition. So I'm guessing you've got a pretty old furnace. Not only is the 24 hour pilot wasting a ton of gas, but it's probably a low efficiency design as well when it runs.<br /><br />Might be very cost effective for you to replace it, even if it works fine. Bundle up!

 

[cajun555]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Yes, it's an old system. In years past always kept toasty in the house and the highest bill I ever recieved was 90 dollars.<br /> But 43 dollars and didn't even fire up the furnace<br /><br />I guess its time to upgrade.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

We'll despite having a pro look at it, and myself look too we all missed a major problem.<br /><br />The unit was sucking attic air, not air from inside the house. So it ran all night cause it was trying to heat up the fresh air, instead of recirculating the air. Sure it keeps the house fresh, but dang that oops cost me some bucks. Me being out of the country delayed me finding the problem till now.<br /><br />It shouldnt be too hard of a fix, just requires some sheetrock to seal up the plenum properly. Orginal builders just threw some insulation on large area with little or no support behind. Eventually the insulation fell through, which opened up the plenum to the attic.<br /><br />Ken

 

[roscoe]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Well thats some good news.<br />Should help a lot and keep you toasty and warm.

 

[KRS]

Re: Questions about Heat Pump (Update-Found Prob)

Thanks for the update.... if it happens to me I'll check that