Prop suggestions

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
350 cid 260hp OMC<br />Current prop 13x21(I think)<br />4900rpm @ WOT<br />22' deep V fiberglass Approx. 3700lbs.<br />Using smart tabs 129080<br /><br />When the tabs were added the hole shot and planing improved but I did loose some top end. I currently can get mid 30sPH but without the tabs got much more mid 40sPH. I troll alot and don't want to loose my low speed abilities and I like how the trim tabs have helped my boat's handling but wonder if there is anything I can do to bring back the top end without sacrificing the planing charateristics and hole shot. Can anyone offer any suggestions?
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: Prop suggestions

You shouldn't lose any speed at all. I have a feeling you're setting them too low and compensating by adding trim angle to the drive. Those forces are opposing eachother and slowing you down. Or something has happened to your speed pickup and it's not showing as much speed anymore when you're actually running just as fast as before. Might the tabs be affecting water flow to the pickup? Or maybe it picked-up a bit of debris?
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
799
Re: Prop suggestions

Willy be right. No way should the Smart Tabs cause you to lose that much speed. In fact, you shouldn't lose any.<br /><br />Either your speed reading is off, or your tabs are set at way too much pressure.<br /><br />Also, make sure the angle is set right and that they don't point downwards more than they should, making them act as brakes.<br /><br />Even if you ease up on the pressure setting, you'll still keep full benefits of the tabs at low speeds. The pressure setting merely adjusts the point (=speed) at which the tabs fold up, and the pressure required to keep them up. At speeds below this point, the tabs are fully extended anyway. (NautiJohn, please correct me if I am wrong on this)<br /><br />Now, once you have the tabs dialled in correctly, then you can start playing with props, and I am sure Dhadley and Walleyehed can help you find the right one for your set-up.
 

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
Re: Prop suggestions

I have an OMC electroshift O/D there is no trim selection on this old dinosaur. <br /><br />Actually Nauticus sent the #60 actuators and I've changed to those to help ease the pressure. I've had the boat out once so far with them on the lightest setting. I think with the #60s im in the "adjustable ball park" The boat handles like a dream now. planes nicely without the nose down like with the 80s. My speedo is both GPS and FF. both can't be wrong.<br /><br />When I first ran my boat, prior to adding all of my fishing gear my FF (with a paddle wheel) showed low 50sPH (on glass). My mechanic told me this can't be but thats what I read. To get a better hole shot and get the nose down when towing the kids on the tube I added a "Sting Ray" hydrofoil. it helped but This got me down to the 40ish MPH. I did have my prop rebuilt since then. I did remove the hydrofoil when installing the tabs.
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
799
Re: Prop suggestions

Paddle wheel speedos can be inaccurate and many seem "calibrated to please" (i.e. to show too much). The only accurate speed measure will be GPS, before and after the tabs.<br /><br />The 60 lbs actuators at the lightest setting seem about right (maybe even on the light side) and shouldn't by themselves be able to cause that kind of a speed drop.<br /><br />Adding a lot of weight will slow the boat down significantly, and probably the easiest way to pick up some speed is to put the boat on a diet.<br /><br />Otherwise, are you sure the engine doesn't need a tune-up, or the insides of the hull have not become water-logged over the course of these last few years?<br /><br />To figure out the difference the tabs make, here's an experiment for you: take the actuators off and tie the tabs up with some string. Take the boat for a test run and see how fast she goes. Take note of the running angle of the boat. Now, put the actuators back on, check that the tab angle is correct, and measure the speed again, using the same GPS. Notice again the running angle. If the bow is significantly lower, you'll need to adjust the drive outwards somehow, or adjust the tab angle upwards.<br /><br />You say you had the prop rebuilt. Are you sure they didn't reduce pitch or cupping in that process? That might account for the loss of speed.<br /><br />If your tabs are correctly installed, there's probably little more to be done with them. Then, with some reliable figures for speed, rpm and current pitch, the prop gurus will be able to point you in the right direction. However, unless your current prop is a hopeless case, you have to be realistic about how much speed a different prop will gain you.
 

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
Re: Prop suggestions

What I'm looking for more than speed is eficiency. If I need to haul in to port at 35 to 40 MPH to make a weigh in on time I hate burning a quarter tank of gas doing it just from not tweaking things a bit to get the most performance from my boat. It adds up to lost fishing trips to me. A complete tune-up was just peformed including a unilite electronic ign. conversion.<br /><br />As far as weight, Well yeah, she's a heavy sow being a 22' 71 Slicraft and heavy to start with, then adding a kicker @ about 60lbs., 12 gals of kicker fuel @ about #40 a two battery house bank, at close to #100 a downrigger board (This was always on her)#40, electric downriggers another #50 plus all the tackcle. I've added a good 300 or so lbs. of weight to her. This is mostly necessary equipment for a safe and productive days fishing out on the great lakes though. <br /><br />That kicker has always been a problem. Without the extension, I have to lower it too far down and waves wash over it, add the extension and it protudes below the water line. (Theres some drag)<br /><br />
71_Slickcraft2.jpg
<br /><br />My current prop is aluminum as I run through a river to and from the launch, you never know what you'll run into. Perhaps a new prop is in order. and stay at the pich I'm at. The gear I use actually fills a 8x12 shed. Guess you can only ask so much from a 22'r eh?
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop suggestions

Did you use the template supplied to install the tabs??? are they mounted 1/2" up from hull bottom???<br />FF paddel wheels are good if you can run next to someone with a GPS, then calibrate the FF for the top speed the GPS showed, then they are fairly accurate.
 

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
Re: Prop suggestions

I used the template and verified the degree with a tool used by pipe fitters as a sort of adjustable compass or level. Placed it on the bottom of the hull set it to zero then verified the degree angle @ 26 degrees. Yes 1/2" from the bottonm of the hull. I have both GPS Magellan 324C and used the paddle wheel odometer from my FF a Humminbird 981C. Both speeds were the same.<br /><br />Now, the instructions indicate a recommended range limit between 20 and 30 degrees down from the parellel line of the hull and I checked this to be correct. When I had the boat out last in a 1 to 2' chop it handled the waves better that it ever has with no slamming down on the water as it had before I did anything. A very soft ride. I think I have the tabs pretty colse.
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
799
Re: Prop suggestions

It seems you've got the tabs dialled in right, but still this situation doesn't seem right to me. <br /><br />In theory, the variables affecting speed would be:<br /><br />- total boat weight<br />- engine performance<br />- hull slickness<br />- tab performance<br />- propeller efficiency<br /><br />You've gone from "low 50s MPH" to "mid 30s MPH", and there's got to be something causing that. Yet, you seem to have thought about all of these variables. Beats me.
 

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
Re: Prop suggestions

I reckon the only two things left are running it with a new prop without the tabs and a new prop with the tabs. The weight I have is just that. No whittling that one down. I'll let you know what the difference is with the new prop when I run it.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop suggestions

In most cases, if anything, on a boat that size you should see a slight increase in speed...not the other way around-with tabs...I could see it if the actuators were too high on pressure, but 60's, I would think, (that's what I run on my 18ft alum. with mobsters)should be good.<br />Maybe Nautijohn will step in on this...
 

DangerDan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
260
Re: Prop suggestions

I've talked to him on the phone and he sent me the 60s. Like I say I'll take the suggestion and run the boat with & without the tabs, change props and again with & witout the tabs. This will tell me what I need to know. <br /><br />In looking at my prop I get these #s Michigan D840 R 105 Does this mean anything?<br />when looking at part #s all the numbers ending in 105 show either a 13x19 or 13.25x19. Perhaps my pitch is not 21.
 
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