Update on e85 and cost to make issue

[tomatolord]

I recently read that there about wether e85 costs more to make then to run a car.

Here are the 2 views on the subject some say it cost more to make the fuel then it takes to harvest it

1 - Yes - If you take corn and produce ONLY e85 with it, it takes more energy to make it then to burn it.

2 - NO - If you assign the energy to the use of the corn PLANT, then no. Basically not the entire corn plant is used for e85, some is used for animal feed, and other uses.

If you spread the use of the corn PLANT itself among the various uses it has then e85 uses less fueld to create then it does to use it cars.

Now here is something I have to further investigate - there is a 54 cent tariff on all gallons of ethanol and 51 cents goes to support american farmers in their production of the ethanol.

The last thing I read is a new ethanol plant can be built and paid for in 1 year.

WOOHOO to the american farmer!

Tomatolord

 

[JB]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Don't forget that the corn solids left after Ethanol production are used to feed cattle.

The next step is to use renewable sources to fertilize the corn when it is grown.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Whats your MPG with E85 ?

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Also, ethanol dilivers less than 70% of the combustion energy of gasoline. Basically, unless you can get ethanol for less than tow thrids the cost of gasoline, it is not worth it. Check out last months Car and Driver, there was a great article on ethanol.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

These are all valid concerns, but the fact remains that ethanol, regardless of the economics, might replace oil, which is getting more difficult to get. If the mid-east explodes, the difficulty will be compounded.

(Too many commas?)

 

[tomatolord]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Soulwinner - which is why it is E85 not e100, the 15% gasoline added improves the MPG rating.

Remember at one point in time steam cars were the only way to go becuase gasoline was rare and expensive.

I think e85 will find its niche in the gasoline market, which is great for the world farmer in general.

The oil producing countries had best be careful, if the price gets too high there are many other fuels around the corner.

From what I have been able to understand 65$ a barrel is the tipping point for many of these other sources of oil.

Coal for instance can be made into oil, however there is an additional process that costs $$ to make the oil. As oil goes up in price that additional cost is no longer an issue.

Tlord

Tlord

 

[tommays]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Well if you take away the 50 cent per gallon Goverment support they go bankrupt

We are makeing it from corn for political reasons we should be ramping up sugar type crop production like the rest of the world that produces it does


Tommays

 

[roscoe]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

If e85 was the answer, we wouldn't need the ADM giants to armtwist our government into the new epa regulations, or the tax credits, or the fuel credits, or the countless development and job creation credits at the state levels.

The market would have done it already.

Let me know when you can make your e85 without using any oil to plant, fertilize, harvest, deliver, process and convert, and distribute.
Then count the decades till it can be done without gov't subsidies.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

If e85 was the answer, we wouldn't need the ADM giants to armtwist our government into the new epa regulations, or the tax credits, or the fuel credits, or the countless development and job creation credits at the state levels.

The market would have done it already.

Let me know when you can make your e85 without using any oil to plant, fertilize, harvest, deliver, process and convert, and distribute.
Then count the decades till it can be done without gov't subsidies.

Those are precisely my thoughts and sentiments.

 

[JB]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

The 15% gasoline is to aid starting, not so much to improve mileage. It is almost impossible to start an auto engine on ethanol, particularly at low temperature.

Both sugar cane and beets are better sources of ethanol than corn, but they don't grow well in the midwest. They do make superior cattle feed after the sugar is extracted. Baggasse (the pulp of sugar cane) is used to feed the super-premium Maile beef from Hawaii that runs $50-$75 a pound.

My opinion is that vegetable (and animal) oil burning Diesels and "plug in" Diesel-electric hybrids are a better alternative than ethanol burning Otto cycle engines, but we should never again put all of our eggs into any one basket.

Sources of vegetable oil are numerous, including desert growing plants that are not used for food (Jojoba).

 

[heycods]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

I thought they put the 15% gas in the mix to keep Fred the local wino from drinking the fuel supply upd

 

[treedancer]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Here this should get everybody’s blood pumpin.

Biodiesel can be made from domestically produced, renewable oilseed crops such as hemp.

http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

I guess if treedancer is right, breaking down won't be such a pain after all. Just as long as you don't run out of bio-hemp.8)

 

[roscoe]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Hmmmm ?

Does the fuel tank double as an oil burner?

 

[CN Spots]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

...but if farmers began making produce for e85 (or alternative) on a nationwide supply level, would there not be a decrease in available produce for human consumption? Wouldn't this then drive up the cost of food?

If growing our fuel is the answer... I can see the oil companies buying up all of our farmland for "manufacturing" purposes. Kinda like staking claim on a new oil field.. -'cept this time , it's a corn field.

Would multi-zillion dollar Exxon get subsidies from the Govt. cuz their corn crop did poorly due to flood or drought?

-food for thought (or fuel)


spots

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

I definitely think biodiesel is a better alternative. It is less expensive to produce than traditional diesel when you use inexpensive used vegetable oil.

We will definitely see steps toward alternative energy sources in our lifetimes. Oil is just too expensive, and the Middle East will get no less tumultuous; they have been fighting for thousands of years, we are being drawn into these age-old conflicts.

 

[Gone]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

Every morning I am aromatically greeted by the ethanol plant 20 miles to the west. They're still trying to solve that issue after 25 years.
Why does E85 sell for only $.05 less than E15 regular around here?
Fresh sweet corn is up to $4.50/doz this year. Is E85 causing this?

CD

 

[technostingray]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

I recently read that there about wether e85 costs more to make then to run a car.

Here are the 2 views on the subject some say it cost more to make the fuel then it takes to harvest it

1 - Yes - If you take corn and produce ONLY e85 with it, it takes more energy to make it then to burn it.

2 - NO - If you assign the energy to the use of the corn PLANT, then no. Basically not the entire corn plant is used for e85, some is used for animal feed, and other uses.

If you spread the use of the corn PLANT itself among the various uses it has then e85 uses less fueld to create then it does to use it cars.

Now here is something I have to further investigate - there is a 54 cent tariff on all gallons of ethanol and 51 cents goes to support american farmers in their production of the ethanol.

The last thing I read is a new ethanol plant can be built and paid for in 1 year.

WOOHOO to the american farmer!

Tomatolord

Tomatolord turns corn lord. Or would that be energy czar? Hey, thanks for all the information on growing tomato(e)s You are the epitome of the "swell" guys on this forum. := := := :=

 

[technostingray]

Re: Update on e85 and cost to make issue

These are all valid concerns, but the fact remains that ethanol, regardless of the economics, might replace oil, which is getting more difficult to get. If the mid-east explodes, the difficulty will be compounded.

(Too many commas?)

It could have been written better, but it was stated very well. 8)