China

Kiwi Phil

Commander
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
2,182
I went to our Ag and Pastoral show last week.
I came across a Pavillion completely filled with product displays from China.
It was without doubt the best trade show display I have ever seen, and I have been to many in my trade, (in the Rag Trade, in the Accomodation trade, plus Boat shows).
The layout was immaculate. Better than enything I have ever seen.
It seemed obvious is was manufacturers who came from one specific Industrial Estate in China.
I am interested in packaging for my product.
Went to the info desk where 1 male, probably 50, very well dressed, and 2 women, probably late 30's, and real drop dead georgeous.
Told them my request.
They all shifted their heads forward, the chap in immaculate english asked me a few questions, and interpreted to the ladies.
Their eyes lit up, out came some form of directory and in perfect English, all 3 went through the relevent sections with me.
Now listen to this.
One woman asked "do you have a computer and an internet connection?" I thought to myself, hang on, arn't you the ones from a 3rd world country?
These 3 were brilliant ambassadors, and i could not have asked for more or better service.
All the individual exhibitors displayed the same grace and professionalism.
I said to Anita, "we are in trouble. look at this. Now i know how the Indians felt when they saw their 1st string of glass beads".

Some of the products were:
Luggage: Anita can tell a good product. She believes it was some of the best made she has seem in workmanship and material.
Glasswear: Top quality. No doubt about it
Toys: nothing like those we are use too. Very high quality product
There were others but won't bore you with details.

Conclusion:
1.There is a new kid on the block, and he is a lot smarter than we think.
2. The cheap junk we all see at the bottom of the market is just there to fool us.
3. The Chinese running the show are not the ones we see on TV in dilapedated homes, smog ridden towns, poorly dressed, riding pushers, teeth missing etc.
4. I am still staggared.
Cheers
Phillip
 

Dunaruna

Admiral
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
6,027
Re: China

[colour=blue]I agree, their business practices and product quality control are a far cry from 10 years ago.

Saw a doco a few weeks ago about some of the new industrial estates in China, holy guacamole!! They are out to impress, and it's working.

We are currently looking at uni placement for my daughter, she is thinking of minoring in mandarine - maybe not a silly idea...............
 

JRJ

Commander
Joined
Sep 11, 2001
Messages
2,992
Re: China

Interesting. Some say that within 20 years China will be the wealthiest nation. Learning to speak Chinese may be a lot better choice than say, Califorian or Texan:/
 

CN Spots

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
1,612
Re: China

There's a lot of smoke and mirrors there too though. We print a lot of our product over there and nearly every vendor has promised miracles and never delivered. They'll tell you that they can do anything and worry about doing it later. It usually ends up costing us millions in air freight to get a product to the customers on time and then it's no where near the quality they promised. What you saw was the cream of the crop, primped and preened ambassadors well prepared to make a top-notch impression with their best quality product. Nothing wrong with that, just remember that any manufacturer CAN make a quality product, most are just forced to lower the standards to get it out the door in a profitable manner. The women, although knowledgable about the product, were eye candy. The people we have sent over noticed that very few women in China hold high-ranking positions and the rest are not treated very well at all. Even our female reps were treated rudely, except the blonds, they dig tall American blonds.

-Who don't? 8)

They probably will be the big kid on the block here pretty soon, that's ok by me. We'll just send a couple of lawyers over there in a few years and let them ruin their civilation like they did ours.

spots
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: China

The Chinese are very good busines people because they are aggresive and know customer service.

That was all choked back during the hard line communist days, but that is nearing the end. The last major hurdle China has is freedom of the press. It will come soon.

It will take about 50 years before their kids grow up spoiled, then they will become fat and lazy like many western countries. Then the playing field will be level again.

Ken
 

Vlad D Impeller

Commander
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
2,644
Re: China

"It will take about 50 years before their kids grow up spoiled, then they will become fat and lazy like many western countries. Then the playing field will be level again."

But...The big question is, will we be still able to play on the "same field" when that time arrives?
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: China

We will be so paralized with political correctness and liability concerns we will all have to be restricted to our own homes. :D
Ken
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: China

The issue with China is ultimately their disrespect for Intellectual Property. Yes, labor and other costs are lower, but just think about a company with virtually no software costs. Whether it be typical Windows and Office stuff, or higher tech drafting and programming stuff, they don't pay any license fees, especially not for copies 2 thru 850,000. Also, they pay no cost for other's product designs either. Whether it be a North Face jacket, a Gucci purse or a Cummins truck engine; they stole it.

IMHO, we either force China to play by the same rules or the idea of a level playing field is non-existent. I am not a protectionist when it comes to trade, but I do believe we should always protect ourselves from criminals, which is what Chinese business is . . . criminal.
 

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: China

kenimpzoom said:
The Chinese are very good busines people because they are aggresive and know customer service.

I agree. I import things from China all the time to resell. Often the product is complete crap, but that is to be expected when I am only paying $1.50 for it. They are REALLY good at trying to sell me additional products. I get emails and phone calls from Chinese companies every week trying to sell me their new product, or tell me something they already sell has been approved by American regulatory agencies. (EPA, UL, etc) Often they speak better english than I do, and they usually have a name like Gary or Jeff. :^

Counterfeiting is an ENORMOUS problem with them. A huge percentage of the chinese crap you see for sale on ebay is totally illegal to sell in this country. An extremely unfair advantage to any american company who plays by the rules.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: China

I have to agree with several of the statements above.

1. Smoke and Mirrors-YES!

2. They scoff at liscensing and patents-YES!

3. They understand us perfectly. They know what pushes our buttons.

4. We are strangled by our own PC and litigiousness.

I have a freind that has done business there for many years. He is currently living there. He is quite succesful. He tells me:

1. What they present (to us) is not what is actually there. People are government chosen to represent the nation and its businesses, which are nationally owned, by the way.

2. They have no issues with patents. If they are "called" on it, they'll pull the product. They have so little invested, they can afford to do so. They have little to no "intellectual" work invested. Their society has been so stifled by dictatorial rule that they cannot think, only react and copy.

We don't care. We've all been taught that American business is bad.

They deal with labor issues via imprisonment.

3. Enough said. They know we're suckers for glitz, glitter and pretty women.

4. We have strangled ourselves.

-We reward idiocy via lawsuits.

-We let special interest groups control our industry. eg, The Sierra Club.

-We can't speak clearly, PC has ruined that. We now have to speak in double speak and riddles as to avoid offending ANYBODY.

We are Lemmings and we're loving it.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: China

Quite honestly it doesnt bother me a bit when they copy a Gucci purse and make it an undetectable perfect copy and then sell it for 1/10 the price. Talk about ripoff.

Also, many of the things they copy the patents have already expired. The main offences are software, household items (soap, etc), and fashion clothes.

Ken
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: China

Quite honestly it doesnt bother me a bit when they copy a Gucci purse and make it an undetectable perfect copy and then sell it for 1/10 the price. Talk about ripoff.

Ken,

I rest my case.

It would bother you a great deal if it were your invention/product that got ripped off!!

A Gucci Purse is a WANT. So, what if someone can get $500.00 for one-so be it.. If someone wants it, they can buy it. If they don't need it, they don't have to.

The trouble is, the Chinese encroach by making things we need. They pay their people next to nothing (you can bet it doesn't approach our minimum wage)-displacing American Jobs/Investment.

But, who cares? Right? As long as I got mine!
 

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: China

kenimpzoom said:
Quite honestly it doesnt bother me a bit when they copy a Gucci purse and make it an undetectable perfect copy and then sell it for 1/10 the price. Talk about ripoff.

The problem is not when they make a purse that looks exactly like a Gucci and sell it for cheap, but when they make a purse that looks exactly like a Gucci and then put a Gucci tag on it and pretend it really is a Gucci. There's a big difference between knock offs and counterfeits, mainly, one is illegal. I don't have a problem with knock offs, I buy them all the time, but I won't do business with any company that counterfeits.

How come you're buying fake Gucci purses? :p
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: China

(soap, etc) Ha Ha

Being in the soap and personal care products field I can tell you they dont do well at all in those areas at all

It was tryed for a while and there were so many recalls from high LEAD levels and other product contamination problems they have become a no go

At this point they are hard pressed to make and empty plastic tray for a halloween makeup kit without a lot of FUBAR

We actually have customers who will have makeup made in the USA so its LEAD free ship it to CHINA to be packaged and then ship it back to be sold in the USA

I dont understand how they make money like this ?

China and India can also not make and empty Plastic Squeeze Tube at this point that does not arive without a significant defect level

Tommays
 

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: China

tommays said:
I dont understand how they make money like this ?

Chinese people work for free, basically. (compared to the $7-20/hour an american might make)
 

CalicoKid

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
1,599
Re: China

We have to take personal responsibility in the matter also. In our desire to get stuff cheaper we all turn to the Chinese label more than we should. I say 'we', I have China stuff in my house also.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: China

"Being in the soap and personal care products field I can tell you they dont do well at all in those areas at all

It was tryed for a while and there were so many recalls from high LEAD levels and other product contamination problems they have become a no go"


If an AMERICAN company tried that there would be pubic hangings.

Sorry, got ahead of myself, there would be trials-for years. All to realize there was no crime. Lawyers-$100M----- public. $0.

Which way to the cliff????
 

Kiwi Phil

Commander
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
2,182
Re: China

Those comments have given me food for thought.
One of my brothers lives in UK.
He is a journalist, has his own publications, plus is the Secretariat General for an organisation that takes him to different countries probably twice a month, to visit businesses/operations etc, write reports/articles and present them in a magazine to members of this Org.
China is one of those Countries.
Roger tells me
1. The Chinese currency is possibly 30% undervalued, fixed, giving them a major advantage.
2. They can't see why they should have to pay for overpriced computer stuff (as in licienced stuff). (apparantly they object to these prices as common people can't afford the price....so it's seen as a bit of a pay-back)
3. They are hopless at being original. Tells me a factory covering 80 acreas or something was built to make some product, to specifications supplied, along with orders. The smart arxed bosses built a duplicate (absolutely identical) one to make identical product, different name/different colour. It failed completely. They could not sell the product.
4. They will copy anything, but most will not touch stuff with current patent, and don't have the nouse to alter sufficiently to avoid a patent.
5. He alsways said, India is the one who will do us the most damage when they get going as they are creative and inventive.

Personally, I was very impressed by the ones I met.

One of the web sites they gave me was www.made in china.com
Guess you have all been there.

Cheers
Phillip
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: China

Personally, I was very impressed by the ones I met.

Kiwi Phil,

Again S & M. (smoke and mirrors) The rest of you, put your tongues back in.

1. The Chinese currency is possibly 30% undervalued, fixed, giving them a major advantage.

2. They can't see why they should have to pay for overpriced computer stuff (as in licienced stuff). (apparantly they object to these prices as common people can't afford the price....so it's seen as a bit of a pay-back)

i can think of a couple of reasons why they OWE-BIG TIME.

[quote3. They are hopeless at being original.] [/quote]

I'm not dilusional folks.

[quote4. They will copy anything, but most will not touch stuff with current patent, and don't have the nouse to alter sufficiently to avoid a patent.
] [/quote]

Again not dilusional. Ability is in the eyes of the buyer.

[He alsways said, India is the one who will do us the most damage when they get going as they are creative and inventive./quote].

In the short term yes, I agree. In the long term-we're doomed.

They (China) have too many people that are hungry and give a rip. We have too many that aren'tt and don't.
 
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