1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

[Canoeman]

Nice site

Fisrt off i did try to use the search function to narrow down my problem but ended up with more and more pages every time with no luck.

Ok so i have tiller 1975 25 hp johnson outboard. I cleaned out the carb and got it running and brought it out on the lake, it started popping out of gear even at idle. So i put a new forward gear,clutch dog and pinion gear and the spring and bb setup in the clutch dog.

To my surprise it continues to do the same thing except only at high rpm's now, i saw there is a wasy to make a small adjustment to the shift linkage where the shift rods meet up by the brass connector, any way i adjust it i get the same results.

Any help would be appreciated.

CM

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

those are notorious for that
i do not think there is a fix

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Wait a minute. You have a new clutch dog, forward gear and the spring detent deal? No way that should still be jumping out. Something must be bent or broken in the linkage. Do you have the thrust washers on the prop shaft spline ends (no excessive shaft end play)? You don't try to be gentle and "ease" it into gear do you? That will destroy a dog and gear in short order. Always snap it into gear with a decisive movement.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Wait a minute. You have a new clutch dog, forward gear and the spring detent deal? No way that should still be jumping out. Something must be bent or broken in the linkage. Do you have the thrust washers on the prop shaft spline ends (no excessive shaft end play)? You don't try to be gentle and "ease" it into gear do you? That will destroy a dog and gear in short order. Always snap it into gear with a decisive movement.

Yup all new, I also have the washers on and no real wear any place i can see. Anything you can think of that would stand out ? The linkage is a setup from a short shaft, i converted it from long while i was doing this work.

Any other ideas ?

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

I also have the clutch dog facing the correct way (indent towards forward gear) and all the parts are there compared to the exploded view i have of the lower unit.

Is there something i could be missing up top by the actual shift handle itself ? Does it pressure in somewhere or anything like that ?

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

There is a limited amount of adjustment at the handle to ensure that the handle agrees with the position of the dog's detent.
Put it in neutral, loosen the 2 screws in the handle, allow the shift shaft (the handle shaft that goes thru the housing) to settle in place as determined by the clutch dog detent and also let the handle settle in place as determined by the detent notches on the verticle interlock bar, and then tighten the handle screws. If you can't get the two detents to agree with each other, then we are back to the bent or broken parts question.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

A-n-n-d, when you converted it to short shaft, what did you do about the shift rod, replace it or cut it off? If it is the wrong length, it could be causing your grief. The detents mentioned above wouldn't agree in that case either.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

I got a full replacement for everything except the water tube. The individual gave me the wrong water tube so i cut the one i had. The shift linkage was the correct one for a short shaft.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Ill try to adjust the 2 indents the way mentioned above and ill let you know.

Thank for all the help.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Probably not worth mentioning, but you might want to check the connector between the upper and lower shift rod again.

It is real easy to have that not be fully and properly secured, especially if you try to connect it without completely removing the screw.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

There is a limited amount of adjustment at the handle to ensure that the handle agrees with the position of the dog's detent.
Put it in neutral, loosen the 2 screws in the handle, allow the shift shaft (the handle shaft that goes thru the housing) to settle in place as determined by the clutch dog detent and also let the handle settle in place as determined by the detent notches on the verticle interlock bar, and then tighten the handle screws. If you can't get the two detents to agree with each other, then we are back to the bent or broken parts question.

I only saw one screw that might make any impact on were the shift lever sat and when i loosend it ... it did nothing. So I had it reassembled and took a look at the upper and lower shift rods and the lower didnt seem and more or less bent than my original. As far as the upper it didnt have any unusal bends either.


As far as the linkage in the middle of the 2 rods i set them both to there origianl positions and tightend them both down. Now when i shift forward it doesnt rest in the forward position of the vertical shift area on the shift handle. but does in reverse.So it seems pre-test wise i am back @ square one.

(hope that made sense)

I wasnt able to test it due to the fact it has been pouring rain here all day so if it lets up today ill try it, if not tomorrw it is

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Go to the BRP site http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=E I looked at 1977 Evinrude 25hp, model 25702H, exhaust housing group, items 43 and 44 are the two screws.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

ok i see the 2 your talking about. Ill try it tonight,lookin like the rains letting up.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

also on the gearcase on # 34 i have a thin washer that sits on # 34, it slides on #34.

Any ideas why it is there ? Thats how it was when i disassembled it, i took a few pictures with my digital camera prior to reassembly.

again thanks for the help.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

34 being the forward gear bearing. Have no idea why it has been shimmed unless something is badly worn in there. I've never seen any with washers there. Raises suspicion.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

34 being the forward gear bearing. Have no idea why it has been shimmed unless something is badly worn in there. I've never seen any with washers there. Raises suspicion.

Thats what i was thinkinh. I dont see any excessive wear on the bushing at all or sorrounding parts. Wouldnt that shim cause it to sit closer to the pinion gear and make it harder to lock into gear ? Should i remove it, or would that cause the slightest amount of play in the whole shaft ? hmmmm.... i might try to remove it.


Ill keep you updated, I have alot of things to try today, the sun is shining and ima ready to wrench

Thanks again for all the help. Ill keep this updated.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

Would seem that any shimming would move the gear an pinion closer together, but that should upset the factory gear teeth clearance and it doesn't seem like it should even turn with jammed gears. Dunno.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

With the shim the gears did make a loud wirring sound like my jeep in revers, so im sure that isnt helping matters.

So i removed the shim and made all the above mentioned adjustments......same results. I can feel it locking into gear but under load it still crawls out of gear. If i add even the slightest amount of pressure to the shift handle it stays in gear but i dont really want to have to do that

So is there something i am missing, man im ready to bring it in but this thing has costed me enough already.

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

also just removed the shift handle itself and it had multiple shims in it holding it further out.

Why would there be shims on the bushing and the shift handle ? Maybe to prevent it from kicking out of gear with the old set of gears....perhaps ?

 

[Canoeman]

Re: 1977 Johnson 25 hp shift issue

ok .. heres the follow up.

The forward gear and bushing/bearing i got from the outboard place was said to be the correct one. I ended up bringing it back and asking them to check. Come to find out Johnson release a fix for this issue years ago and the part i was given was the old style. Long story short, the new assembly works like a champ and all is well in MN.

again ty for everyones help on this issue. resolved