Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

[mikeneal]

I have an issue I believe I have narrowed down to a bad starter on a 99 VP 5.0GL. My issue is outside starter bolt is WAY frozen. Previous owner didn't do great job with taking care of boat and has been salt water most of it's life. I have been soaking it with penetration oil and even heated it slightly with LP torch but not sure hot hot I can go so didn't really kill it. I am using a quality 6 point socket but it fits sorta loose because of rust on the flats. (closest size metric is too small. I have seen/heard lots of pulled the motor stories related to starters and I am trying really hard to not join that club...any tips? Can I really heat that area up good with little risk of collateral damage?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

The problem is that the bolt is long and it will be close to impossible to get penetrating oil into the threads.

Before you get to the point of breaking the bolt off, I would consider cutting the head off the bolt and removing the starter so that you have full access to where the threads enter so that you can get penetrating oil right there.

 

[Don S]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

That won't work bruceb58. If you cut the head off the bolt you can't lower the starter down off the remaining part of the bolt because it has a snout going into the flywheel housing. Now, if you pull the dust cover and the flywheel housing off, you can do that. But my guess is the bolt is corroded inside the starter, and even with the head cut off you couldn't get the starter to drop down.

I normally just give it hell, if it breaks, well, I would have had to pull the engine anyway.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

I am with DonS again. dang.
he took my job.

anyhow I aint never yet seed a snake oil defy gravity.

get a good fitting socket,six point.
set your teeth, pray to a god, and pull like mad.
in a few seconds you will know which way the gods are smiling.

aint boats fun ??

 

[searay3]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Ive always found shocking a rusted bolt works better than brute force. Although how much space you have may limit you, but put some good pressure on the breaker bar and smack the end with a hammer in the direction you want the bolt to move. Might break, might break free......

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Ooops, you are right Don. Forgot about the snout

That won't work bruceb58. If you cut the head off the bolt you can't lower the starter down off the remaining part of the bolt because it has a snout going into the flywheel housing.
I normally just give it hell, if it breaks, well, I would have had to pull the engine anyway.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.


If the starter is junk you could try disassembling the starter motor from the mounting flange and "snout" section. Then try splitting or grinding the snout casting away from the trouble bolt. That may afford you access with a PB Blaster type fluid and save you from having to pull the drive and engine. Just a thought.

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

I heated it some more this evening and sprayed more PB Blaster on it...nothing doing. I realized I could get my 3/8 drive air ratchet in there if I had a shorty 3/8 socket. I only had a good brand 12 pointer so went and bought a quality 6 point one...and now it is raining like crazy. I will try that tomorrow. I had myself psyched up that tonight either it turned or broke but talked myself out of that, decided one more day of soaking MIGHT help. Think I am peeing on a forest fire. should I just break 'er off and start the motor removal?

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Can you get a hammer in there? Give the bolt some good taps before you start. Don't expect to much from a 3/8 air ratchet, most are 40ftlbs. at best, but hey, you never know. Just make sure when you're in there, standing on your head, that you have the socket well seated when you start pulling on it and good luck. I'll be waiting for the success post...

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Even better if you can get an impact driver on it. Although I doubt their is enough room.

I got lucky with my snapped bolt on my starter. As I was trying to drill it out, it spun out with the drill. However, my boat has never been near salt water, so "corrosion" per say, is almost non-existant even after 20 years of use.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Do you have enough room to drill a small (1/16" would work) hole from the top of the engine casting into the end of the bolt. You could then squirt PB into that hole. If you can't get at it from the top, a downward angled hole from the side might work as well.

 

[elpaso]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

You have tried the LP torch twice - if you are not
worried about fire in the bilge ?

Get a Oxygen-Acetylene torch - put some real heat on it.
with that amount of steel, LP will not even warm the
starter.
Have the fire department standing by.
But it will work.

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Update: It is out. I soaked it w/ PD Blaster and let the 3/8 air hammer for a while and then I got under there and gave it everything I had with 18" ratchet...it moved...slightly at first but I knew once it moved I could move it back and forth the couple degrees and the oil would work it's magic. Bottom line I got the starter off, tomorrow I will get a new one and it should be ready for weekend. Thanks for all the advice/moral support/assistance.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

unless you could get the oil on the outer bolt,some are drilled through, the PB had nothing to do with it. lock the blt in a viseby the head with the threads vertical, spay half a can of PB on the head/vise jaw area. come back in an hour and see how far up the bolt it went.
the shaking most likly helped more than anything.
as a contract tech thats the type jobs I get, most shop owners dont wish to pay an hourly wage to someone to fight problems.
so I get the sheet work, however I am very good at it.
good to hear it broke free, carefully check the knurled spots on the bolt shanks, if they are flattened replace the bolt as that knurl catches the bore in the block to prevent the bolt from rocking. doesnt take much with the new PMGR starters to shear it off flush with the block.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

Great news and good job! Don't forget to use some good anti-seize on your new bolts...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

actually I dont reccomend antisieze on the bottom mount GM starters. I want them to sieze. thats why they are knurled. if that bolt wiggles at all the PMGR starter WILL shear it. I drill out maybe 8-12 a year.
thats why most manufactures send new bolts with new starters. and torque them to about 35 ft pounds.
if you look closly at the block surface you will see a bore of about 1/2" deep before the threads start. that bore is for the knurled(rasied) portion of the shank to lock to the bore.
at 75 an hour or more that 4 dollar apiece bolt looks rather cheap.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Frozen Rusted Starter boat.

And if ya don't think that starter doesn't have a sh#&house fulla torque..well, just don't apply 12 volts to one loose on a bench. It will fly off, and damn near rip your leg off...got 37 stitches on my knee to prove it (another dumb move!)