Abolish Minimum Wage

crunch

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

rodbolt said:
not trying to offend, but the average minimum wage worker usually has no motivation to educate themselves.
not all but quite a bit. maddens me to see a customer pay for the meat and diary with WIC checks and the rest of the food with food stamps then the case of beer and two cartons of smokes with cash.
in my entire life I cashed 2 unemployment checks and no food stamps. while in the USN we did get the reduced milk and dairy for my son with WIC.
to me unemployment was harder than actually working.
you wont believe how many folks came by my shop,not for a job, just the signature that they asked.
thats why since the navy placed me on the permmanantly disabled retired list I have worked for myself. that was back in 95.
but thats why I say we dont need to scrap most the programs, we neeed to alter the way they are administered.
if ya need welfare then you must achive certain goals to obtain it.
if ya got 3 kids by 3 dads and ya need welfare then tubal litigation should be a prerequisite. or at least the 3 year norplant. no new babies on the dole.
should be time limits, 3-5 years should be enough if your motivated.
I understand hard times,illness, unplanned pregnabncy whether or not marriage is involved. all these things happen.
however welfare should not be a life choice either.

Rodbolt !!!!!!!!! Who'd a thought it... I actually agree with you and give a thumbs up... but then again, I haven't read all of the thread yet, stay tuned.
 

crunch

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

--GQ-- said:
Firestar said:
Secondly, you fail to see the importance of Minimum Wage. The idea here is to entice the welfare recipients to join the work force. By creating the minimal standard, more will join the work force and contribute to society in the form of taxes.
Wanna bet on it?

Well GQ,

You are living in dream land. Live in a big city like Chicago, Detroit, LA for several years and then maybe you'll be qualified to speak. You sound like a bleeding heart ultra liberal that is out of touch or uniformed.
I know a welfare agent that presented a job offer to a welfare recipient. The recipient replied " hell that's only 50 cents an hour more then I make on welfare". This took place in the early sixties. 50 cents went a long way then. Did you know that the welfare crowd in Chicago would take the train to Wisc. to collect there too. Don't blend welfare reform with minimal wage. To seperate issuses. Genius

OK Nacho Libre, obviously you have your glasses on. The reason why someone is on welfare is because he or she doesn't have the skill necessary to qualify for a high paying job and when he or she does decide to work or forced to work, he or she will more than likely start out at MINIUM WAGE job. By keeping the MINIMUM WAGE at a certain standard, the transition is much smoother. Of course you can't see this. You rather have them walk over to a corner and die peacefully.

Your example of the 60's has more holes than a swiss cheese. Back then a working father could support a family of 4. Not the case now. More over, competition is at a higher level. People today are more than likely to take MINIMUM WAGE job.

On second thought, can you imagine the consequences of not having a MINIMUM WAGE? 8)[/quote]

"The reason why someone is on welfare is because he or she doesn't have the skill necessary to qualify for a high paying job"

I have to point out that to get that skill, you have to start at the bottom, not the top as so many welfare recipients want... I mean damn, if you are making $15.00 an hour sitting on your butt, (with Welfare, Insurance, Food Stamps, etc., that’s what it works out to in Oregon) why start at the bottom and learn the job to get the high pay?

Around here, experienced framers only make $15.00 an hr. Hod carriers start at $9.00... same for the pick and shovel brigade.

The problem is,,, it’s work, not sitting around spending the old ladies welfare on beer and drugs.
 

crunch

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

LadyFish said:
I can only speak to one side of the minimum wage issue. It has been my experience while working in the non-profit/community service sector for nearly ten years that those on welfare really don't want to get off. Welfare yields a much better monthly compensation than minimum wage. This is why those on welfare are not inspired to go back to work.

For example, a single mother of 3 on Welfare also receives food stamps and free medical in addition to her monthly compensation from welfare. If she were to go back to work and have to pay a day care for two children, purchase groceries, transporation, and pay medical insurance for her two children she would end up with less than she receives on Welfare.

Most people receiving Welfare only have a high school education and do not have the skills required to earn more than minimum wage. With living expenses at their current level I don't know how anyone can survive on minimum wage alone. And, why would they want to when there is a system that pays them more to stay home.


LOL... guess I should have read further before I opened my mouth... Ladyfish, you hit it right on the head.
 

crunch

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage


Just refreshed the chat page... seems someone locked this thread too, but as you can see it isn't.


Arrrrrg me buckeys, are you fighting amongst yourselves for the hearts and souls of your crew?
 

searay3

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

Most of the youngsters really don't have a clue about how the liberals have mucked up the whole welfare system. I have seen/lived both sides. My folks came from eastern Europe in the post WW2 immigration days. They came with 6 in tow including grand parents. They could only enter the country with a sponsor to give them a job, they had to commit to becoming an American citizen, and had to agree to take NOTHING from the fed govt for 5 years. They came, they worked, they made a living. A decent one. When my siblings and I grew up, we got the belt when out of line, and when we furthered our education it was between the men in my family to make sure whoever went succeeded. What I found as I had kids of my own that they were taught all through school in the 80's/90/s that if you have to struggle don't worry, the Hillary's of the U.S. will make sure you have shelter/money/food. All sounds good. I now have two nieces that feel squirting out babies gives them hillary's dream and they don't need a mimimum wage. More babies from different men give them bigger checks and better places to live, not to mention free healthcare.. When I lost my temper with one, her response was 'go ahead and hit me, I'll call the cops and have you arrested'. Another Hillary accomplishment. My daughter and son are now starting their lives. They chose not to pursue an education but are doing fine. They were raised to help themselves and others, and to not rely on the govt for any help and to frown on those who do. Insurance companies and private charities are out there for our "ADA" friends, and raising a family should be left to the family. A switch when needed, and praise for accomplishment. I feel for those who are having a hard time, but when I see how some folks had to move halfway around the world or die, started families and made they own way, to seeing the govt pervert a system to the point where folks feel they have no responsibility for thier own actions and blame the govt for not taking care of them.....(new orleans). I know this started as a minimum wage thing, but if you start with that it does open a discussion on welfare as that it what min wage is.....
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

Despite all that blather, I hardly think that a minimum wage is "welfare"......
In fact, you actually present a good case for increasing minimum wage....
If it were considerably higher than the "dole", methinks it would be a stimulus to get off of one's duff.....
& don't blame the government if your nieces turned out to be tramps.....
Blame poor parenting........
I do agree that the welfare system is in need of some serious changes, but those who need the ADA & welfare ho's have nothing in common....... JK
 

searay3

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

You seem to have an issue with self reliance, the point of my blather.....Methinks if one is hungry enough, and the 'dole' isn't big enough, it's a good enough stimulus to get off ones duff and do something for themselves. With the crutch of free money, the ghettos of the US were born. How many of those min wage recipients are actually out there trying to better themselves, and how many are living in govt housing crying cause the min wage isn't enough, or they can't get an education. Then breaking into your place looking for something they don't have to earn. Your logic doesn't make sense. Goes for the ada too. If your in a wheel chair, don't expect to work a on road crew. But then, the construction company better give them a ramp, another free handout.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

There were ghettos long before welfare.....
Just because a person is disabled, doesn't make them worthless.....
Some Senior citizens also use/need those ramps....
How about an Iraqi vet, in a wheelchair, does he deserve a ramp?
Lazy welfare bums are one thing, disabled people are quite another.....JK
 

--GQ--

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

Firestar said:
--GQ-- said:
Firestar said:
Secondly, you fail to see the importance of Minimum Wage. The idea here is to entice the welfare recipients to join the work force. By creating the minimal standard, more will join the work force and contribute to society in the form of taxes.
Wanna bet on it?



Well GQ,

You are living in dream land. Live in a big city like Chicago, Detroit, LA for several years and then maybe you'll be qualified to speak. You sound like a bleeding heart ultra liberal that is out of touch or uniformed.
I know a welfare agent that presented a job offer to a welfare recipient. The recipient replied " hell that's only 50 cents an hour more then I make on welfare". This took place in the early sixties. 50 cents went a long way then. Did you know that the welfare crowd in Chicago would take the train to Wisc. to collect there too. Don't blend welfare reform with minimal wage. To seperate issuses. Genius

OK Nacho Libre, obviously you have your glasses on. The reason why someone is on welfare is because he or she doesn't have the skill necessary to qualify for a high paying job and when he or she does decide to work or forced to work, he or she will more than likely start out at MINIUM WAGE job. By keeping the MINIMUM WAGE at a certain standard, the transition is much smoother. Of course you can't see this. You rather have them walk over to a corner and die peacefully.

Your example of the 60's has more holes than a swiss cheese. Back then a working father could support a family of 4. Not the case now. More over, competition is at a higher level. People today are more than likely to take MINIMUM WAGE job.

On second thought, can you imagine the consequences of not having a MINIMUM WAGE? 8)

You don't have a clue! Where do you live? Deepest darkest part of Africa? I think that if you are a step above an idiot you earn more than minimal wage.
All that this issue is is an azzhole politicians bullcrap for votes! GET IT!

[/quote]



^ I like this guy ^ . Quite a feisty fellow. Thanks for the compliment but I am actually a step below an idiot. Nevertheless got my pencil and paper ready to take note. Lecture on professor. 8)
 

Plainsman

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

"^ I like this guy ^ . Quite a feisty fellow. Thanks for the compliment but I am actually a step below an idiot. Nevertheless got my pencil and paper ready to take note. Lecture on professor. "

You said it, no one else
 

crunch

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

"^ I like this guy ^ . Quite a feisty fellow. Thanks for the compliment but I am actually a step below an idiot."

LOL... don't tell me, a half wit?... sorry, just reminded me of a scene in "The 10th Kingdom"... ever see it?

A guy was a 1/2 wit but aspired to become a complete idiot... obviously a step up 8)
 

--GQ--

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

EricKems said:
"^ I like this guy ^ . Quite a feisty fellow. Thanks for the compliment but I am actually a step below an idiot. Nevertheless got my pencil and paper ready to take note. Lecture on professor. "

You said it, no one else


Hi there neighbor ! Would you be my friend? I like you ! There are no stranger just people we haven't met. 8)

Nope Captin Crunch, never saw it. Even if I did, I can't remember. The "10th Kingdom who"? o:)
 

Plainsman

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

--GQ-- said:
EricKems said:
"^ I like this guy ^ . Quite a feisty fellow. Thanks for the compliment but I am actually a step below an idiot. Nevertheless got my pencil and paper ready to take note. Lecture on professor. "

You said it, no one else


Hi there neighbor ! Would you be my friend? I like you ! There are no stranger just people we haven't met. 8)

Nope Captin Crunch, never saw it. Even if I did, I can't remember. The "10th Kingdom who"? o:)

Sure thing.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

Compassion comes from people, not government. It is not the governments job to set minimum wages or minimum standards of living. That is the work of caring people. By setting a minimum wage, the government is telling business how little to pay and restricting the free market forces that our economy is based upon. Abolish the "MINIMUM" and the gap between lowest paid wages and minimum "living wages" will naturally close. But most importantly, it the government influence OUT of a part of the economy that it has no business being in, in the first place. Minimum wage helps no-one.

Go back and read the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The government has no business and no authority to interfere with the American free markets, yet they have instituted regulations and "Acts" that have saddled our economy with billions of dollars in needless costs each year. This is money that doesn't go to the government, the business or the employee. It is spent in the process of making business compliant with government regulation. Just look at what it costs to remain in compliance with IRS code!It costs a fortune for a corporation (even a small one) to pay their taxes. This is lunacy.

By setting minimum standard for starting salary, businesses do not have to pay more, so they don't. But if this regulation were removed and business had to pay a competitive wage for their respective industry, the wages would naturally increase. So those in favor of minimum wages legislation are really in favor of poverty, while waving a banner of "compassion." Don't you understand that success does NOT come from a government program or mandate?

Minimum wage is no different than Affirmative Action. (OK, you can me a racist now too!d:)) Setting minimum standards is not the path to excellence. Setting minimum standards is how the old soviet union operated. It doesn't work. In free markets businesses succeed by being better than the competition. To do this they hire better people and pay more. But the beauty of free markets is that are many levels of competition, and other businesses in the same industry can compete with lower quality workers, product etc. with a lower price.

This is so dang simple, but I guess a true socialist will accept nothing that intrudes on their belief that mother government, with her entitlement programs and bureaucratic regulations is the key to individual success. Reading Mein Kampf, I see clearly that liberalism is the truest form of Fascism.
 

Firestar

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

Once again I have to agree with you Soul! I wouldn't consider you a racist but rather a realist. Now I'm shure that the ultra liberal do gooders will consider me a racist too. Oh well. no big deal. I like poking the rat.
 

--GQ--

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

SoulWinner said:
Minimum wage helps no-one.

EXTRA ! EXTRA ! read all about it.
I remember many years ago, I was 16 years old, had my first job flipping burgers. I was able to save enough money to by a used car. It was my only source of transportation between work and school. Minimum wage job was my stepping stone to adult hood. My experience, however is not unique. Thousands of kids across the country can say the same.

Minimum wage helps no one? Beetle dun if you ask me.

Abolishing minimum wage will yield many consequences. One, it will make the transition between teenager to adult life much tougher especially in this day and age. Some may not make it, thus becomes a burden on society later on in life. Two, it will provide a ground work for businesses to pay their employees even lower. And of course promoting illegal immigrants to fill the void. Is this your goal? Can't have it both ways.

Confucius say, "Man who sit on toilet, is high on pot".

The idea here is long term benefit. I guess if you are "near sighted", you can't see this.


Firestarter, if you keep landing head first, a screw is bound to get loose and you may not be able to think rationally as a result.
 

Firestar

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Re: Abolish Minimum Wage

I should clarify. I don't want to see minimum wage raised any longer. . If it is viewed by some that the minimum wage should be increased as an insentive to get people off welfare, I say lower the welfare instead. Leave the minimum wage alone. The cost of raising minimum wage will be absorbed by the consumer in the end. How much are you willing to pay for a loaf of bread? Leave it be.Abolish is too strong a word to describe my thoughts on minimum wage. Don't raise is more inline.
 
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