96 gm 350 starter problems

[jwkoehn]

Ibought a used boat 96 Larson w/ a 350 & a bravo 3 drive . Had the engine rebuilt into a 383 stroker now I have starter problems The starter drive teeth are not long enough to reach the flywheel teeth causing the teeth to jump over the flywheel teeth Idid not touch the flywheel when the engine was rebuilt I had a special shim made up It goes from 0 thickness to 3/16 going through the starter bolts causing the starter to roll into the flywheel It seems to work pretty good now . My Question is why was this needed.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

Somewhere, Sometime, between the Motor coming Out,+ going back In,.......

The Starter or Flywheel has been Changed.......
1 or the Other is the Wrong 1.......

Does your Starter have the Straight Accross, or Staggered Bolt Pattern,..??..

Does the Block have 1, or Both Patterns drilled in it,..??..??...

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

Somewhere, Sometime, between the Motor coming Out,+ going back In,.......

The Starter or Flywheel has been Changed.......
1 or the Other is the Wrong 1.......

Does your Starter have the Straight Accross, or Staggered Bolt Pattern,..??..

Does the Block have 1, or Both Patterns drilled in it,..??..??...

staggered bolt pattern is there more than 1 flywheel or ring gear that could have been put prior to me owning it?

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

Somewhere, Sometime, between the Motor coming Out,+ going back In,.......

The Starter or Flywheel has been Changed.......
1 or the Other is the Wrong 1.......

Does your Starter have the Straight Accross, or Staggered Bolt Pattern,..??..

Does the Block have 1, or Both Patterns drilled in it,..??..??...

staggered bolt pattern is there more than 1 flywheel or ring gear that could have been put prior to me owning it?

also due to the starter ploblems i ripped up a couple of starter drives The rebuild shop tells me this is the only drive that will fit on the starter motor. so it can"t be wrong

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

Somewhere, Sometime, between the Motor coming Out,+ going back In,.......

The Starter or Flywheel has been Changed.......
1 or the Other is the Wrong 1.......

Does your Starter have the Straight Accross, or Staggered Bolt Pattern,..??..

Does the Block have 1, or Both Patterns drilled in it,..??..??...

staggered bolt pattern is there more than 1 flywheel or ring gear that could have been put prior to me owning it?

also due to the starter ploblems i ripped up a couple of starter drives The rebuild shop tells me this is the only drive that will fit on the starter motor. so it can"t be wrong

only 1 offset bolt pattern is drilled into it

 

[Autotech1]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

chevy uses two different diameter rnig gears.

153 and 168 tooth.

Souns like you now have a smaller diameter flywheel.

you need a starter for tagger mount 153 tooth.

The flywheel had to be changed because the 383 is externally balanced while the 350 was internally balanced.

your 383 now has a 400 harmonic balancer and flywheel. as well as a 400 crankshaft with the mains tuned down to a standard 350 dimeter.

unless its an aftermarket cast steel crank, then it could be interally balanced still.

Either way it looks like youve got the 153 tooth flywheel. Youll need a whole new starter.

Both use the same bendix drive, the difference is in the stater cone, it puts the starter shaft in a different position.\

If you cant find a marine starter to fit your application you could use an aftermarket gear reduction starter. they are sealed and wont make any sparks.

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

yes it is an aftermarket steel crank where could I find an aftermarket starter like this and yes it must be sealed for spark thank for the info /Jim

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

yes it is an aftermarket steel crank where could I find an aftermarket starter like this and yes it must be sealed for spark thank for the info /Jim

also what is the size Diameter of a 153 tooth fw compared to a 168 tooth f/w?

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

yes it is an aftermarket steel crank where could I find an aftermarket starter like this and yes it must be sealed for spark thank for the info /Jim

also what is the size Diameter of a 153 tooth fw compared to a 168 tooth f/w?

How many teeth are in a 14 1/4 f/w?

 

[Autotech1]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

not sure of the diameters, the size is refenced by the tooth count.
I tried looking for one for u, could be your up a creek tho.

Try contacting jegs or summit. They both have good websites, tell them what you have and what you need, if such a starter is available they will have it or should be able to get it.

153 tooth-offset mount. and make sure its a sealed unit. The gear reduction starters are, and they draw a 1/4 of the amps and turn the motor over twice as fast.

sorry i couldnt find one tho, i was gonna give you a link.

Umight just have to change your flywheel to a 168 tooth I cant seem to find any staggered mount 153 tooth units.

Seems whoever built this motor for u really screwed the pooch.

if you replace the flywheel, make sure you replace it with the same type-external or enternal balance. the external balance should be obvious with a large counterweight. not sure wich your crancshaft is.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

only 1 offset bolt pattern is drilled into it

You've got the Wrong Flywheel........

The Staggered Pattern is for the 168 tooth, 14" Flywheel...........

The 153 tooth, 12" flywheel uses the Straight across Pattern.........

 

[imported_rosco]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

i have made a couple 383,s in my youth. i can tell you exactly why the starter will not line up.

the flange on the small block 400 crankshaft is thicker than the 350 crank where the flywheel bolts on. this causes the flywheel to sit back away from the block a bit more.

i solved my problem by buying a small block 400 flywheel from a junkyard, and a small block 400 starter motor. they also make aftermarket flywheels with the teeth inset a bit for this spacific purpose. they also make aftermarket long stroke cranks with 350 crank flanges. they are internally ballanced, as opposed to the factory crank that usses the flange as part of its ballancing.

BTW, you need to use a 400 harmonic ballancer too or you will get vibration. there are aftermarket ballancers you can buy also that will match the dimensions of a 350 ballancer so you can bolt on the 350 accessories.

350 windage treys dont work well with 400 cranks either. require a little massaging (beating clearance into it with a hammer) to keep it from hitting the rod caps. again, any aftermarket trey will have enough clearance in it already.

an awsome build. tons of torque. GM is making factory 383 builds now for marine application. you can get the torque of a bigblock in the space of a small block. it is perfect for a marine application.

 

[Autotech1]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

from what he has described it sounds like the ring gear is the right distance from the block, but he has the wrong diameter. If its an internaly balanced aftermarket crank than he needs a 168 tooth 350 flywheel.

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

after doing some digging I found out that the ring gear was replaced they used a 168 tooth gear

 

[Autotech1]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

doesnt make any sense to me then. If theyre not lying to you then i Would say it must be the issue that rosco is talking about.

Either way you should pull the motor and figure out what the heck u have.

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

I pulled the engine this is what I found
Flywheel is 168 teeth I counted
Diameter is 14 1/8
depth of teeth 1/8 in.
With starter and flywheel installed {no shims} I can put a 1/4 drill bit between the flywheel teeth and the bendix gear shaft.

after examining the teeth of the flywheel the starter is definitely jumping over the top of the flywheel teeth .
we cranked the motor over on the hook & found that the starter teeth are only engaged 1/16 to 1/8 in into the flywheel .Also this is an internally balanced engine. Is their a different flywheel from merc than what gm uses in the automotive application ? it appears that the teeth need to be about 3/16 longer on the flywheel

 

[Bondo]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

Have a Look through this thread,......It might explain Your Issues........

 

[jwkoehn]

Re: 96 gm 350 starter problems

We finally found the problem ; after fighting w/ it for 2 yrs
It turns out that the previous owner must have changed starters [ gm offset bolt pattern high output ] in doing so they used a 11 tooth bendix which is offset an additional 1/8 in away from the starter we switched to a 9 tooth housing and problem solved works like a champ they changed this during the 96 model year any one else run into this?