Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

[wi1p]

I have finally got my Winky-Blinky tester from Yamaha for $115.00 for use in testing my SX225TURY. Problems-WOT Cut outs, poor idle.

Hope this is not a repeat but I did search in the archives /files and only found the following regarding the Winky-Blinky's use " the tune-up spec guide is like 5 bucks and has all the codes in it."

Where do I get the Tune Up Spec Guide?

Is the information posted anywhere on the internet for
free access?

I've got raw gas running out the exhaust when I shut down and no pressure on the fuel rail when power is shut off. (Normal pressure when ignition switch is turned on-35psi), Gas also leaks out from the intake when the engine is tilted full up. Bad injector/s or leaking diaphram in low pressure pumps or both or leaking or fuel pressure regulator in/on VST? Recommendations??

Thank you for any assistance.

Unhappy Yamaha Boater

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

if rodblt does not answer


try

SIM
andy jr on thehulltruth

 

[Suncoug]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

I am a recreational hacker, so please discount my advice accordingly:

It doesn't sound like the Winky-Blinky will help you much as it is primarily used to test sensor failures such as TPS and your issue is probably fuel related. If you get any codes, please let me know and I will look it up for you.

I would first look for any fuel leak on all fuel plumping to make sure that there is no torn hoses. I would also test and replace the low pressure pumps. If it has been a while, I would just replace them.

I would also take the fuel rail off and inspect the injectors and rubber grommets (?) on them both the intake side and the fuel rail side.

While you are at this, you might want to inspect/clean fuel injector filters and the VST tank/filter.

You might want to have a fire extinguisher nearby when you work on this.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

ok
lets look at the fuel system.
we will break it into 3 sub parts.
the first is the tank and lines up to the fuel lift (low pressure) intakes.
nothing here will allow fuel into the block.
now we are going to look at low pressure fuel.
3 lift pumps and they are prone to failed diaphrams which will allow fuel into the crankcase if any one of the 3 diaphrams are ruptured but once the engine is off they quit moving fuel.
they also make it idle funny at low speeds and you will see a lot of fuel rainbows on the water at idle.
it can blow a motor.

now for the VST
here is where its gonna get complicated.
the high pressure pump picks up fuel from the vapor seperator , its simply a tank.
from the high pressure pump it is fed to the fuel rail, what the injectors cant feed the engine is fed back to the VST through a vacum operated pressure regulater that will maintain 35PSI on the rail regardless of how rapid the throttles are opened, remember if the TPS signals the ECU the throttles were opened rapidly that system will go to synchronous and assynchrounus injection at the same time.
the fact that as soon as you shut the motor off pressure falls leads to a bad regulator diaphram or a sticking injector.
if the needle valve in the VST sticks it will run very rich but rail pressure wont be affected at shut down.
a quick test for the lift pumps is with the engine off simply pump the primer. if a diaphram is leaking the primer will never get hard and you will hear the fuel moving, same if the VST float needle is leaking. the VST is vented to the intake and if the float needle leaks it will overflow raw gas into the intake at number 5cylinder, I think its #5 . memory there is fuzzy.
trace the cacum line from the pressure regulator to the intake, unplug it, turn the key on and see if gas squirts out. if it does the diaphram is bad if it does not continue testing but dont rule it out.

did your winky blinky indicate a code 33 then a code 1 at start ?
do you know how to interpert the flashes ?

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

ok
lets look at the fuel system.
we will break it into 3 sub parts.
the first is the tank and lines up to the fuel lift (low pressure) intakes.
nothing here will allow fuel into the block.
now we are going to look at low pressure fuel.
3 lift pumps and they are prone to failed diaphrams which will allow fuel into the crankcase if any one of the 3 diaphrams are ruptured but once the engine is off they quit moving fuel.
they also make it idle funny at low speeds and you will see a lot of fuel rainbows on the water at idle.
it can blow a motor.

now for the VST
here is where its gonna get complicated.
the high pressure pump picks up fuel from the vapor seperator , its simply a tank.
from the high pressure pump it is fed to the fuel rail, what the injectors cant feed the engine is fed back to the VST through a vacum operated pressure regulater that will maintain 35PSI on the rail regardless of how rapid the throttles are opened, remember if the TPS signals the ECU the throttles were opened rapidly that system will go to synchronous and assynchrounus injection at the same time.
the fact that as soon as you shut the motor off pressure falls leads to a bad regulator diaphram or a sticking injector.
if the needle valve in the VST sticks it will run very rich but rail pressure wont be affected at shut down.
a quick test for the lift pumps is with the engine off simply pump the primer. if a diaphram is leaking the primer will never get hard and you will hear the fuel moving, same if the VST float needle is leaking. the VST is vented to the intake and if the float needle leaks it will overflow raw gas into the intake at number 5cylinder, I think its #5 . memory there is fuzzy.
trace the cacum line from the pressure regulator to the intake, unplug it, turn the key on and see if gas squirts out. if it does the diaphram is bad if it does not continue testing but dont rule it out.

did your winky blinky indicate a code 33 then a code 1 at start ?
do you know how to interpert the flashes ?

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Hello Rodbolt & iBoaters,
Manual pumping of gas to the low pressure lift pumps got no hardness in the in line manual pump.
Replaced the 3 pump up pumps today. Easy job. Question on torquing the 10mm low pressure pump mounting bolts, nothing in service manual for this. What is a good value in FtLbs. I used 10ftlbs.
Ran the TPS test and got 0.62volts.
Pulled high pressure regulator from VST to check regulator filter and no filter was installed. I have a replacement filter. Should I replace it or leave it out?
Pulled hi press pump filter and found almost nothing in the filter, however, the rubber damper was damaged and pieces of the rubber damper were in the bottom of the VST tank. I plan to replace the damper as soon as I can get a replacement. Any idea how it could have been damaged if it had been installed correctly when the high pressure pump was replaced by the local dealer? Since the debris from the damper was in the bottom of the VST tank I do not suspect this as the possible cause of injectors sticking open. I plan to pull the injectors tomorrow and check the injector filters and clean them. Any other suggestions while I have the injectors off?
As for the "Winky-Blinky" I have no idea where it is connected nor how to interpret the putput. Help for this would be greatly appreciated.
I plan to addres the O2 sensor cleaning and testing tomorrow.
I thank you in advance for your comments, directions and help.
Unhappy Yamaha Boater

Update- number 2 lift pump diphram was significantly torn. Other 2 pumps diaphrams were not damaged upon inspection. Any suggestions for rebuilding the removed ones to keep as spares for next years replacements?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

toss the pumps, the gaskets and diaphrams to fix them are very close to just buying new.
to attach the winky blinky to an OX 66 you unclip the wires from the engine oil tank, plug the big lead from the winky to the engine side of the harness, then look on the engine side for a female blue wire. it originally had a blackrubber plug to seal it. plug the bullet connector male from the winky blinky into that female blue wire.
with key on power it will work but most codes willneed engine cranking or running to retrive.
be aware that for extended testing there is NO automatic oil transfer from the remote tank to engine tank with the winky blinky installed however manual transfer will work.
dunno why your unhappy, normal routine maint prevents almost all the issues you state, its just finding a dealer with a tech like me that does not mind spending your cash to make sure his reputation and your boating experince are all good.

you will find the 3.1 motors are rather hard on lift pumps and very thisrty above 4200 RPM. any debris in the VST will shut it down and any defects in any of the lift pumps will do the same. but with a torn diaphram we got the gas at shut down issue resolved.

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

You should replace the filter.

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Hello Rodbolt and Ray and iboaters,

Update- the fuel pressure regulator filter was found installed and replaced. I looked in the wrong place for it, on the regulator not IN the VST. Service manual shows "O" ring looking like it holds the filter in regulator when filter is inside the VST. Filter was contaminated, ~~10%, with debris looking like it was from the High Pressure pump damper, black and rubber looking. Behind the filter in the VST channel I found and removed a large piece of black rubber about 3/4" long and 1/16" diameter along with other large black debris. Guess I'll remove and check this filter again before I store the engine for the summer.

Replaced the damaged high pressure fuel pump "Damper" with a replacement damper. Seems to me it would have been difficult to install it incorrectly or damage it when a new pump was installed. Has anyone seen this problem before?

Installed the "Winky" and had the 33 code upon start up and within a few minutes the code went to 1. Still would like to acquire tech bulletins / information on the use of winky and other possible codes which may display faulty sensors....

Checked O2 sensor output with DVM and test harness and saw fluctuations from 0.43 to 0.62 volts with quick voltage changes while engine was running leading me to believe the O2 sensor is working properly. However, I do hear the rattling noise sounding like a wrist pin coming from starboard side of engine. Should I remove and clean the O2 sensor and its protection tube or let it alone for now? As far as I know, past 4 years, it has never been removed or cleaned.

Fuel rail still drops pressure instantly as soon as power is removed or after approx 5 second on power applied. Pressure steady during engine running at 35 psi. Tried to test the regulator by removing the vacuum line while running engine to see if fuel would come out and no fuel was present. Planning to buy and test with vacuum pump next. Any other suggestions for testing the pressure regulator before replacement? No raw fuel showing in exhaust on water upon engine shut down which would indicate injectors leaking. I still plan to pull injectors and check / clean filters to be sure. Engine has very low hours.

Idle is still a little rough and starts at 900 cold and drops to 700 after winky goes to "1".

Thank you again for your patience and help with a person learning about this engine, its care a feeding practices, and repair processes.

Unhappy Yamaha Boater-getting better

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

ya really should see about 1100 with a code 33 then dropping to normal idle with code 1.
code 1 means everything the ECU monitors is normal.
code 33 means the ECU is in engine warm up mode with fixed timing and fuel corrections based on inputs from the thermosensor.
the rattling sound is most likly the O2 sensor draw tube remove it and clean it.
if you notice one or both ends shiney you will know it was the draw tube.
a clogged or dirty tube will sound exactly like a wrist pin at idle.
never seen a damaged damper but the list of stupid stuff I never saw seems to grow daily.

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

UPDATE- Hello Rodbolt, Ray and iBoaters,

Today I pulled the injectors to check for clogged filters, found none, and to determine if one of the injectors was leaking causing the loss of pressure on the fuel rail. I'm not sure how to test the injectors for leaking. I disconnected one and tried highpressure air through it and found no leaks and decided I didn't know how to test for leaking injecotrs so I reinstalled the injector rail.

Next I pulled the O2 sensor for cleaning. Upon removal the sensor did nto appear to have much contamination. None of the holes in the sensor protector were closed. There was a small / light build up of carbon near the threads on the sensor and on the sensor joint, the tube which fits into the block, which I cleaned with a wire brush, pipe cleaner and an awl. Not sure if this "Joint" has a correct way of reinstallation as both ends look identical after cleaning.

Rodbolt or others, any suggestions or comments on the reinstallation of the tube?

My O2 sensor is now soaking in combustion chamber cleaner. Tomorrow I will wash it off with Contact cleaner and bench test it and if it passes I will reinstall it and test it on the engine per the service manual.

Any additional suggestions for getting this baoter back on the water with a properly running Yamaha?

Thanks for any and all assistance.

Unhappy Yamaha Boater

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Update- Reinstalled the cleaned O2 sensor after bench testing with propane torch. Bench readings started at 0.0 volts and went to 0.3 then to 0.5 and up to 1.0 before I removed the heat and cooled it rapidly by blowing air over the sensor. Cooling caused immediate lower voltages.
After installation I tested the O2 sensor on the engine by blocking the throttle plate hole in the top cylinder. I did notice rapid changes in the sensor output but not as described in the service manual. Readings did initially go higher, from 0.5 to 0.7 but fluctuated rapidly and never went as low as I expected from the manual description. Upon removing the blocked port, reading dropped to 0.3 and ran up to 0.5 to 0.7 with rapid changes.

Draw tube had one end shiny over the entire surface area. After cleaning both ends are shiny and tube is clean.

Initial start RPM's are 1200 cold dropping to 800 after warm up. Readjusted to 1100 RPMs cold per recommendations.

Ran two on the water tests at WOT and no engine cut outs. RPM's to 5500, MPH to 41. Fuel pressure gauge remains at 35 PSI but drops instantly when engine is turned off.

Rodbolt and others; What are the potential problems if this issue of fuel pressure on the rail dropping is unresolved? Can I continue to run this way without damaging the engine or should I replace the high pressure regulator??

Two other open issues;
1. Where does one get access to or copies of the Yamaha service bulletins for these engines? Should the local dealers provide access or are they proprietary for use only by Yamaha mechanics?
2. Where can I find more information on the "Winky" use and codes?

Happy Yamaha Boater once again thanks to your help.

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Unresolved fuel issues often end in disaster. I personally see very few of this version of Yamaha outboard. However lack of fuel is the most common cause of blown two cycle engines and I would advise you to be very cautious in operating until I was sure the problem was resolved. What do the plugs look like? This will give you an idea of whether the problem is on the rich or lean side.
I bet if you feed rodbolt enough info, he will help you find the answers. When he gets through, you will be better able to understand and service than the majority of service techs in the buisness today.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

ok
full RPM?
decent Idle that goes from fast at cold start to about 800 at warm running? the O2 sensor bench test is a waste of time and meaning less.
the other 2 tests MUST be done with the lowerunit in the water.
but looks to me like its running ok.
what was the question?
as far as the presure falling at key off, if everything else is normal I woul not sweat it.
I will be a tad slow sometime as I have been very busy here in Venezuela

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Merry Xmas rodbolt. Don't guess it will be a white one for you.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

RAY
nope odds are high against it.
I hope you and yours have a very merry christmas.
so far I have given away about 300 dollars worth of baseball gloves and dolls and such, the rest I will give away next week in Rio chico. some baseballs,bats and gloves as well as a suitcase slam full of lures.

however good lord willing and the creek dont rise, come jan 02 I will be fishing lake Guri with jimmy houston.
yall have fun now ya heah
Wi1p
if its running well and no discernable isues are presant than I would say you got it.
good luck and go fishing.

 

[wi1p]

Re: Yamaha WINKY-BLINKY codes? Leaking Gas Recommendations?

Hi RodBolt,

Thank you again for all your help, especially being so far away from home. Hope you and yours are enjoying the weather for a Very Merry Christmas.

Best of luck on your fishing trip.

Okay on the fuel rail dropping pressure on key off. I'll leave it alone unless something else develops. Warm RPM's are 800.

Going fishin again!!

Two more issues you may be able to assist with;
1. Yamaha Technical bulletins- where can one obtain copies?
2. Anything on the "Winky" use and decode available besides the Yamaha service manual?

Best Wishes to you and ALL iBoaters for the New Year.

Happy Yamaha Boater..again.