In Remembrance Dec. 7

[Laddies]

This thread is not to belittle any Japanse Americans or for that matter the Japanse people as a whole but to make all of us remember what their Goverment and industry has been responsible for!
Just a few anyone feel free to add their own feelings many young men gave life and limb to protect your right to do that we can at lest agree on that I hope.
The Attack on Pearl Harbor
The Rape and Murder of thousands of people in Manila
The Bataan Death March
The Starvation, Brutalizing and Murder of Allied prisioners
The use of Allied prisioners as slave labor in camps and in industry
The Japanse Govt. and Industry refusing to pay many Millions of Yen in reparation wages the the service men used as slaves by Japanse industry, even thou they got off scot free for those that died of stavation and were murdered while in the care of the Industial giants of Japan

It makes me wonder how the Govt. of our country lets some of these Japanse industries do business today in America
I hope that this thead offends some people as these things have offended me for many years--Bob

 

[KaGee]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

God bless you Bob. Thanks for posting.

Ya have to wonder, other than JB, how many here even know the significance of this date.

 

[QC]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I believe one of the results of December 7th is that brutal, evil Governments are not as prevalent as they once were. I think it is honest to say that the Japanese Government and Industry of today is nothing like that which you refer to Bob. To me, that is the legacy of 12/7/1941 . . .

 

[Tyme2fish]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

My father passed away in 1982 and was at Skofield Barracks that Sunday morning.He went on to fight in Guadalcanal.
He always told me, "Son, if I ever have to fight in another war, I want to fight a race of people that are as scared of dieing as I am. The Japaneese were fanaticaly."

 

[jtexas]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

By way of trying to understand why our govt treats Japan as they do, and if I can say this without sounding disrespectful to any of the brave souls previously mentioned, I'd just like to point out that they were punished pretty soundly.

 

[Pony]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

God bless you Bob. Thanks for posting.

Ya have to wonder, other than JB, how many here even know the significance of this date.

Not all the young people in the world are ignorant.

 

[oddjob]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I here ya Bob...the real prob today is that alot of people do not know the meaning of 911. and some believe it to be a plot from GW.. buckle your seat belts

 

[KaGee]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

God bless you Bob. Thanks for posting.

Ya have to wonder, other than JB, how many here even know the significance of this date.

Not all the young people in the world are ignorant.

Pony, you are right, not all, just most act as if they are. And a lot are ignorant that are older than you. They're the same bunch OJ is talking about... in denial about 9-11, God forbid we should ask them to honor those involved 12-7... 1941!

I'll never forget one of the most solemn, moving moments of my life was floating over the Arizona Memorial at Pearl.

 

[QC]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I'll never forget one of the most solemn, moving moments of my life was floating over the Arizona Memorial at Pearl.

Same for me Kagee. All that haven't been to the Memorial should put it on their list . . .

 

[12Footer]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I'm sittin here after a hard day at werk, watching some of the "black helecopter" theories surrounding what FDR knew and when he knew it pre 12/7/41.
The more things change, the more they remain the same, y'all. We have always had our Benedict Arnolds,Murtha's and Chamberlains, who eagerly blame "our government" whenever someone attacks us, or when we try to keep another Nanking from happening somewhere around the globe.

It sickens me to think that lessons learned from 9/11/01 have been so quickly forgotten. All this means is that it will happen again somewhere on our sovereign soil, or at minimum, encourage the tojos of today to ignore America, percieving us as NO Threat.....
Machmuud is tellig the world, "Let their own senate bring them prostrate before our swords".
Our senate is obliging.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

Hiroshima and Nagasaki pay back if yiou will.................it worked once

 

[JB]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I was in Hawaii last month with the love of my life, revisiting memories. We went to the Arizona, Missouri and the Bowfin.

Standing on the memorial over Arizona I remembered my first visit to her, on December 7, 1954. There was no memorial then. My guide was a Navy Air Controlman who was in the Ford Island tower on that morning.

We walked out a rickety walkway to where a lone Marine in dress blues stood like a statue on a small platform over her. A large flag fluttered in the perpetually light, warm, perfumed Hawaiian breeze.

He wept as he recounted the horror of that morning. We watched the drops of oil rise to the surface and burst into rainbows on the surface.

He later took me to the control tower and to the Utah, which still lies bottom up on the west side of Ford Island.

It pains me that I do not remember his name. Later, at a Captain's inspection I noticed that he wore a Navy Cross, second only to CMOH in the Navy. I never knew what he did, when or where, to earn that, but he was the only enlisted man in our squadron that the Captain saluted first.

I have always felt particularly honored that it was me he invited to a personal tour and narrative.

To know such men and their story makes being an American serviceman a very special special thing. I left the Navy in 1961, but I am an American Sailor to this day.

The government and the leaders that attacked us that day are history. The warriors were being warriors and I honor them for their service to a lost cause.

 

[Pony]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

God bless you Bob. Thanks for posting.

Ya have to wonder, other than JB, how many here even know the significance of this date.

Not all the young people in the world are ignorant.

Pony, you are right, not all, just most act as if they are. And a lot are ignorant that are older than you. They're the same bunch OJ is talking about... in denial about 9-11, God forbid we should ask them to honor those involved 12-7... 1941!

I'll never forget one of the most solemn, moving moments of my life was floating over the Arizona Memorial at Pearl.

I agree with you Kagee.......I'll be the first to admit that most people my age have no clue what December 7th means. I just wanted to point out some of us are aware. Although it is impossible for me to feel the same way as you guys do.

 

[heycods]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

A verry fitting post , thanks guys.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

dec 7th 1941 means a lot to a lot of folks.
however FDR and many others knew something was coming and it was big, very big.
track ship movements in the days leading up to pearl.
then ask yourself howcome it was the first and last time the 7th fleet ever moved ALL the carriers and NONE of the support ships in the days leading up to the infamous event.
was it coincedence? was it foreknowledge? the world will most likly never know.

me I think it was a culmination of errors.
the US knew something was afoot, but even then our intell seemed to have failed to grasp the grand scale of it.
the end result was not going to change.
Yamamoto was almost put to death for treason when he tried to talk the rest out of the attack, kinda like rummy and dummy, however in the end he went along with the plan, at least colin powell bailed.
Yamamoto tried very hard to talk the other knuckle heads out of an ilfated plan. they refused and we obliterated them in the end.
however it took some incredible sacrifices to accomplish it.
after reading many many years about the battles and interviewing many relatives that were there I came to the conclusion they hated combat.
all to a man said fear was the biggest issue.
they were scared because the civilian leadership had failed to prevent a war and now they had to fight it with the same leaders. good thing we had leaders back then that actually listened to the folks planning it.
I guess you can say Macauther cut and ran. he did, chicken ares.
he not only cut and ran but took his family with him.
CUT AND RAN
not only that he left a few thousand to die in a rear guard losing situation.
so some times cutting and running is an option.
just have a plan that makes sense.
but yes the attack on pearl was a horrendous thing, all the way from the blunder the japanese made with the international dateline, for those that actually read the war decree was supposed to have been delivered prior to the attack, to the incredible blunders our military made in the 1942 rea in the pacific.
but it still does not explain why congress would not autherize rosevelt to declare war on germany.
but yes, according to FDR's own memoirs he knew war was declared by japan on the 6th of december 1941 and failed to pass it on. document 13 was his clue.
and its in his memoirs if ya actually care to read them.
the battles are very interesting, tactics and stats and all. the politicse behind how it got that way are fascinating.
also look up which family dynasties in the US made billiosns trading with US enimies.
you may be supriesed or sickened or both.

 

[JB]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

Whatever faults Douglas MacArthur had, cowardice was not one of them. He refused Roosevelt's order twice before he was convinced to follow orders from POTUS. He was not good at following orders from people he considered inferior to himself. That included all of humanity except BlackJack Pershing, with Roosevelt and Truman at the top of the list

The US carriers were delivering planes to Midway. They were not alone.

The Japanese declaration that negotiations were closed was December 8th (in Japan), not Dec 6th. It was delivered to Secretary of State Cordell Hull after the attack. Their blunder was in not giving their embassy enough time to translate and deliver. The attack was never intended to be without a declaration of war.

I never spoke with anyone who had actually experienced combat who didn't hate it. Very rarely will they even discuss it. Doesn't really make sense unless you recognise that every combat survivor was scared at the time and feels guilty about that and sometimes about killing people.

You have been reading too many conspiracy theories, rodbolt, and you seem to assume that nobody else has read anything or remembers anything.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

JB
thats were your wrong about me. I dont think anything was an actual conspiricy on dec 7th 1941, but I would like it if you could give me the names of the carriers, their normal battlte fleet support and the names of the support ships with them at the time.
delivering supplies to midway is a new one here.
the fact we were going to war with japan was evident as late as 1939, congress at the time wanted nothing to do with an asian conflict as no one in any political power had any ties to asia.
still rewally dont. same as or issues in the mid east.
but reguardless of the brilliantly planned and cowardly attack on pearl harbor that day, the outcome was inevitable.
as far as your blind blather for macauther you just proved my point, he disobeyed orders when it suited him, however when it was known the phillipines were lost he obeyed the order to evacuate, seems he really could have disobeyed that on too.
and in his fall to total madness in the 50's trueman had no chioce but to fire him. ya ever read that crazy mans stratagy to do something really stupid in north korea ?

the japanese had sent 13 articles on dec 6th, by reading them roosevelt admited in writing we are at war on dec 6th 1941, its in the library of congress for all the world to read.
the japanese declaration of hostilites was held up by translating and the funny international date line.
whats funny is my grandfather later became friends with an airman from the japanese airforce and the jap was still mortally ashamed of the sneak attack.
they met a few years back at the wright brothers memorial, which my great grandad sold that sand hill to the dept of the interior about 1924.
so we been here a bit and seen a lot buried a few down the street.
I drive by them every day as its my only way in and out.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: In Remembrance Dec. 7

I must apologize for derailinjg this thread.
as I have spoken directly with some sailors and airmen that were on perl harbor on that day dec 7th 1941, I will agree.
it was terrible.
it was wonderful and it galvanized an entire nation.
on dec 8th it did not matter what ehthenticity you placed in front of american you were american.
and the japanese govt and population told us were were at war.
and in 4 years were retreated, licked wounds, rebuilt our military and did what we had to do.
the atomic bombs dropped in 45 are very very regrettable.
however they killed thousands.
in the same token they saved millions on both sides and gave a window to trhe world that this type of weapon was and is an indescriminate killer.
but by killing tousands it saved millions. dont forget that. was it nasty? yep. was it warrented in that war ? yep.
in that war we had a govt and a people that supported thier govt going to war.
ya cannot make any parrelells to the current monkey boy fiasco.
no way no how dont tarnish the WWII vets with it.
funny thing is roosevelt wrote in his diary in 1939 we would fight both germany and japan, both for different reasons but fight we would.
but at least he could identify who was responsible for what and then he followed the age old docterine that rummy forgot.
to conquer you MUST occupy, to OCCUPY you MUST field overwlming troops on the ground REGAURDLESS of technical superiority or your ARSE gets kicked in the end.
been that way for 7 or 8 thousand years.
most american knuckle heads cant wrap their tiny brains around the fact those tribes in a reagion where they did not draw any borders, all the borders were arbitraily drwan after WWI and WWII with no input from the tribes, have lived in that area for over 4000 years before any white man or black man set foot on the land mass now known as the US.
if they had wished for a democracy they would have had it 3000 years ago. we cant beat it into them.