Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
MSNBC.COM

the sub-headline reads:
"Four-fifths of ‘vicious killers’ released after return to home countries"

so............we gonna start seeing sarcasm in "serious" news sources?

an exerpt:
The Pentagon called them "among the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the Earth," sweeping them up after Sept. 11 and hauling them in chains to a U.S. military prison in southeastern Cuba.

Since then, hundreds of the men have been transferred from Guantanamo Bay to other countries, many of them for "continued detention."

And then set free.

and this is an AP story.

looks like the news media is going to co-opt sarcasm...I'll have to find a new idiom.

I've been wanting to use "idiom" in a conversation ever since I first saw "Holy Grail"!

[EDIT: Please disregard...I thought it said breed. "detainees breed after transfer"]
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

Why do you get tired of us posting the words, "liberal media" all the time?
Us neo-cons have seen their sarcasm for
YEARS.
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
5,517
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

In most countries innocent people go free.
It is only in countries that disregard basic human rights that prisoners can be kept incommunicado and without access to lawyers.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

rolmops said:
In most countries innocent people go free.
It is only in countries that disregard basic human rights that prisoners can be kept incommunicado and without access to lawyers.

Yeah rolmops, and it could only happen at the hand of the country that you have elected to remain your home. Why don't you go to, say, Syria or Iran?

These people were prisoners of war. They may have been innocent and maybe not. We were fighting an enemy that chose chose to disguise itself while hiding amongst the women and children. They were/are not subject to the civil liberties of an American citizen.

Get over it or bug out!!!!!!!!!

The lefts' demand that we give equal protection to enemy combatants is just another attemp to bring the power and soveriegnty of the US down. We have not yet succumbed to your ideal 'one worldism', where those that try harder are relegated to the heap of mediocraty as the lowest amongst them.
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

Boomyal said:
rolmops said:
In most countries innocent people go free.
It is only in countries that disregard basic human rights that prisoners can be kept incommunicado and without access to lawyers.

Yeah rolmops, and it could only happen at the hand of the country that you have elected to remain your home. Why don't you go to, say, Syria or Iran?

These people were prisoners of war. They may have been innocent and maybe not. We were fighting an enemy that chose chose to disguise itself while hiding amongst the women and children. They were/are not subject to the civil liberties of an American citizen.

Get over it or bug out!!!!!!!!!

Amen!! Thay are not Americans and don't have the "right" to a lawyer, at least not yet. And I am sure if they were returned, but deemed a threat, they were set free, free to met their maker.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,079
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

Boomyal said:
These people were prisoners of war. They may have been innocent and maybe not. We were fighting an enemy that chose chose to disguise itself while hiding amongst the women and children. They were/are not subject to the civil liberties of an American citizen.

Ayuh,......... Nothing There that's very hard to Understand.................

On exactly Sept. 9th, 2001,.... The Issue became a War,.....
No longer a Police/ Criminal Action that the Liberals liked to call it..........

In a War, there are Enemy Combatants,......... Who have No standing under Our Constitution.........

Unlike Criminals..........
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
5,517
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

You can rest assured that the guilty ones are still in Gitmo,it is only the innocent bystanders that were let go.
Still it was an embarrasment to declare them innocent ,so they were sent off to their countries of origin and there they were let go.
As for enemy combatants,that is a brand new term coined exclusively for this war.They used to be called prisoners of war.
The main thing that Gitmo has achieved so far,is that American soldiers, if captured, will be treated the way we treated the enemy combatants in gitmo,that is if they are lucky.We effectively rendered the Geneva Convention useless for our own soldiers.
The country with the most experience in fighting terrorism,Israel, has always allowed the captured terrorists the right to legal defense with the help of lawyers.
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

Boomyal said:
rolmops said:
In most countries innocent people go free.
It is only in countries that disregard basic human rights that prisoners can be kept incommunicado and without access to lawyers.

Yeah rolmops, and it could only happen at the hand of the country that you have elected to remain your home. Why don't you go to, say, Syria or Iran?

These people were prisoners of war. They may have been innocent and maybe not. We were fighting an enemy that chose chose to disguise itself while hiding amongst the women and children. They were/are not subject to the civil liberties of an American citizen.

Get over it or bug out!!!!!!!!!

The lefts' demand that we give equal protection to enemy combatants is just another attemp to bring the power and soveriegnty of the US down. We have not yet succumbed to your ideal 'one worldism', where those that try harder are relegated to the heap of mediocraty as the lowest amongst them.

the great thing about America is, something you don't like about it, you can speak out, take action, without fear of being tossed out by facists like boomyal.

Many of the "detainees" at Guantanamo are/were not "prisoners of war" or even "enemy combatants". They are/were "detainees".

And if you think it's just "the left" who wants to restore some rights to the "detainees" you are living in fantasyland.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

jtexas said:
Boomyal said:
rolmops said:
In most countries innocent people go free.
It is only in countries that disregard basic human rights that prisoners can be kept incommunicado and without access to lawyers.

Yeah rolmops, and it could only happen at the hand of the country that you have elected to remain your home. Why don't you go to, say, Syria or Iran?

These people were prisoners of war. They may have been innocent and maybe not. We were fighting an enemy that chose chose to disguise itself while hiding amongst the women and children. They were/are not subject to the civil liberties of an American citizen.

Get over it or bug out!!!!!!!!!

The lefts' demand that we give equal protection to enemy combatants is just another attemp to bring the power and soveriegnty of the US down. We have not yet succumbed to your ideal 'one worldism', where those that try harder are relegated to the heap of mediocraty as the lowest amongst them.


Many of the "detainees" at Guantanamo are/were not "prisoners of war" or even "enemy combatants". They are/were "detainees".

Oy Vey! You talk about fantasyland!
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

rolmops said:
You can rest assured that the guilty ones are still in Gitmo,it is only the innocent bystanders that were let go.
Still it was an embarrasment to declare them innocent ,so they were sent off to their countries of origin and there they were let go.
As for enemy combatants,that is a brand new term coined exclusively for this war.They used to be called prisoners of war.
The main thing that Gitmo has achieved so far,is that American soldiers, if captured, will be treated the way we treated the enemy combatants in gitmo,that is if they are lucky.We effectively rendered the Geneva Convention useless for our own soldiers.
The country with the most experience in fighting terrorism,Israel, has always allowed the captured terrorists the right to legal defense with the help of lawyers.

Do you Honestly beleive that they are following the Genava Conventions? They mutilate the captured. My God man wake up!! Do you really think that Gitmo determines how an Americian is treated? Please smell the roses and wake up!!
 

bekosh

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
1,382
Re: Most Gitmo detainees freed after transfer

Once again, the definition of a Prisoner of war is spelled out in Article 4 of the Convention. Article 5, states what is to be done with those whose status is in doubt.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.

Article 5

The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

The enemy we are fighting could qualify for the protections of the convention as POWs if they follow the guidelines in section 2.

Otherwise, when we capture them in combat, we could treat them as spies & sabateurs, convene a court-martial, then put them up against the nearest convient wall. This is what happened to Otto Skorzeny's men during the Battle of the Bulge.

The only "detainees" that we need to have some sort of review to determine their status, are those that we have some doubt as to what their actual status is.

Quick review...
Following the rules under Article 4 section 2 when captured. POW
Not following the rules. Nearest convient wall. BANG.
Flotsom of war. Unknown status. POW until we convene a tribunal to determine status.
 
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