In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Chris1956

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I have an '98 Johnson 150. I do not have a signal coming out of the voltage regulator/rectifier to run the Tach, but the motor is still charging the batteries. Is this possible?
 

WillyBWright

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Yes. The tach drive wire may lose connection inside, or the bridge rectifier has only one failed diode. It would charge at half the amps that way.
 

Chris1956

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Willy, Thanks for the info. I am still awaiting my OEM Service Manual, via snail mail. I hope there is a test of the voltage regulator/rectifier within the SM, so I may know for sure if it is broke.
 

redcajun18

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

mine is like that also, hooked the tach wire to the yellow wire and the tach works! also charges just fine so i am leaving mine that way till i have to replace the $300 regulator!!
 

Texasmark

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Son's Merc has 2 rectifier/regulator pks. Don't know if your OMC has 2 or not. We had a similar problem and just swapped the tach wire from one to the other and solved the problem.

I guess Willy already answered the "would it work" part of the question. I don't know where they take the tach signal off (before or after rectification) and what type regulator they use in these things Full Wave Bridge I assume) . Also don't know what type circuit "reads" the pulses (level detector/counter, integrator, shift register or what). If I had answers to both those questions it would be a no-brainer to answer the question.

So, Willie, can you answer the questions cause I would like to know, as I bet ,others would too.

Thanks,

Mark
 

Chris1956

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Redcajun18, I have priced out a replacement regulator from Rapir at $150. You may find it on www.boatfix.com.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Tachometers read off the alternating pulses from the stator. Any of the leads from the stator charging portion can be used for the signal. The designated tach signal wire is merely attached to one of those. Tachs have rotary switches on the back that set it to different numbers of coils in the charging circuit, times two because there is a positive and negative pulse for each coil for each cycle. Tachs measure pulses.

Johnson/Evinrude has three wires coming from the stator to the regulator/rectifier. One is common, and the others lead to separate banks of charging coils. That way, if one of the coils fails, the other bank should still charge.

Alternators put out AC current. Graphed-out, it's a sine wave. Simple rectifiers take half of that sine wave and convert it to DC. Bridge rectifiers take the whole sine wave and convert it to DC. So bridge rectifiers charge at twice the rate of simple rectifiers. If one of the diodes in a bridge rectifier fails, it still acts as a simple rectifier.

Alternators only alternate if there is a complete circuit. When a rectifier fails, the circuit is broken. That's why Johnson/Evinrude uses two separate banks of charging coils and bridge rectifiers. Those allow back-ups should a connection be broken.

Once produced, the electricity from the alternator has to find a place to go. If it loses connection at the battery, it will find it's way out someplace else. The rectifier is the usual place. I really can't explain why they don't fuse them. Yamaha does, and they frequently save the rectifier. Anyhow, that's why regulator/rectifiers usually fail, loose or corroded battery connections. Connecting the battery backwards also blows diodes. Been there, done that. Loose connections usually take out single diodes, but can do that more than once eventually causing a complete bridge rectifier failure. Cross-polarizing takes out both sides of the bridge rectifier right away.

Mercury V-6s do it slightly differently. They have two completely separate charging circuits in the stator with completely separate wires leading from them, and two completely separate regulator/rectifiers. That also provides a backup if one connection fails. The added feature is that one regulator/rectifier can partially fail and charge at half the rate and still have one perfectly good regulator/rectifier charging at the full rate. So a Merc can charge 3/4 rate with a single failed connection and 1/2 or 1/4 with additional failures. Johnson/Evinrude only has the 1/2 option. But the smaller Mercs only have one bank of charging coils and a single voltage regulator. Same 1/2 rate if one diode fails, but no charging at all if one charging coil connection breaks.
 
D

DJ

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Willy's explanation was very thorough.

As mentioned, you can get the tach. signal from another lead but you still have a problem. You are only charging at half rate. Charge voltage will look OK but amps are 1/2.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad?

Yep. But the voltage of a partially failed regulator/rectifier will show slightly lower voltage than a fully functioning one. That's because the battery sort of acts as an electricity shock absorber. If you feed it twice the amps, more volts (actually tenths of volts) will back up trying to get into the battery, and that will show up as more volts. Say a fully functional charging system shows 14.7 volts at full throttle. A partially failed system may only show 14.3. It's roughly a half-volt difference. But that also depends on the condition and charge status of the battery. So without a concurrent side-by-side comaprison, it would be difficult to determine with certainty. Typically I take a failed tach signal as sufficient cause to replace the regulator/rectifier. I have seen the signal wire fail in an otherwise fully functional rectifier/regulator a few times, but they are way down in the minority.
 

Chris1956

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Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad? Updated Question

Re: In operative Tach = Voltage Regulator partially bad? Updated Question

Ok my manual has still not arrived and I have another question. I have had Mercurys for many years, please don't hold that agin me.

I connected the grey wire on the regulator to the yellow stator wire, and still have no Tach reading. Do I also need to connect the other yellow stator wire to the purple wire on the regulator?

Also, I get 22-25 VAC across the stator with the engine running at idle, and the voltage regulator disconnected, but amost no AC voltage from each stator lead to ground. Is that correct?

I hope that blasted manual arrives soon. I hate to be so ignorant.

PS The last Johnson motor I owned was a '58 Fat-Fifty! Things sure have changed since then (for the better).
 

Chris1956

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Re: Update Q on Johnson Tach signal

Re: Update Q on Johnson Tach signal

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