Democracy as we know it

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
I have read this before and each time it seems to sink in a little

bit deeper . . .

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution
in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous
gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always
vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public
treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due
to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,
Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the
2000 Presidential election:

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million
Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000
States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in
government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal
invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake,
knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Democracy as we know it

Nice post Luber, it does strike a nerve does it not.
 

OldMercsRule

Captain
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
3,340
Re: Democracy as we know it

The combination of the demographic peak, (baby boomers) and the rejection of President Bush's proposed Social Security, (SS) reform, (which would give significant ownership of forced savings greatly benefiting the poorest Americans, and would solve many of our current problems), can lead to a real ecomomic and political storm hitting the beaches of this great democracy (likely during the next decade), IM not so HO. The main argument against reform of SS by Dems Libs and a few wobblies: oh the stupid poor people will invest in stocks and loose their retirement. :} Very telling stuff ta ponder, (if ya still have at least one brain cell left after the partyin'). I don't agree about the part ranting against illegals. If we do it right that can and will help with a lot of our demographic problems I raise here. Most Mexicans n' Central n' South Americans are Christians with a very strong work ethic, (very unlikely to strap on a bomb or fly a plane into a building to kill people). They can be pandered to by the worst of the American Pols Dems n' Wobblies, or encouraged by the best to become responsible Cornservatives, n' accept personal responsibility for their lives. Respectfully JR
 

stevieray

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,135
Re: Democracy as we know it

OldMercsRule said:
The combination of the demographic peak, (baby boomers) and the rejection of President Bush's proposed Social Security, (SS) reform, (which would give significant ownership of forced savings greatly benefiting the poorest Americans, and would solve many of our current problems), can lead to a real ecomomic and political storm hitting the beaches of this great democracy (likely during the next decade), IM not so HO. The main argument against reform of SS by Dems Libs and a few wobblies: oh the stupid poor people will invest in stocks and loose their retirement. :} Very telling stuff ta ponder, (if ya still have at least one brain cell left after the partyin'). I don't agree about the part ranting against illegals. If we do it right that can and will help with a lot of our demographic problems I raise here. Most Mexicans n' Central n' South Americans are Christians with a very strong work ethic, (very unlikely to strap on a bomb or fly a plane into a building to kill people). They can be pandered to by the worst of the American Pols Dems n' Wobblies, or encouraged by the best to become responsible Cornservatives, n' accept personal responsibility for their lives. Respectfully JR

JR - I treid to send you a PM on another topic, but it got booted out (software glitch)? Please try to send me one & I will try to reply to it - that may bypass the glitch.
Thanks,
SRK
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Democracy as we know it

"Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in
government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Pure speculative exaggeration, but it does show why our form of federal republic is not so vulnerable as Prof. Tyler suggests. Those who feed the government have the power to check those who feed off of the government, even when they are in the minority. There are enough in the middle to shut down runaway socialism (the bondage Tyler refers to).

Now, Social(ist) Security. FDR sold this to my parents as a safety net to rescue poor elderlys from destitution, poverty insurance.

It has morphed into a federal retirement plan and source of general revenue.

There are a multitude of IRAs and other tax-exempt programs for private ownership of retirement savings. There is no need for federal socialist competition.

There is need for a major overhaul back to a safety net, or poverty insurance, that pays ONLY those who NEED it, and is paid for (NOT OVERPAID) by taxes regulated to cover the payouts. . . no deficit, no surplus.

The state of SS and Medicare is a far more dangerous and immediate crisis than Al Gores favorite "sky is falling" scenario.
 

Pony

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
4,355
Re: Democracy as we know it

The state of SS and Medicare is a far more dangerous and immediate crisis than Al Gores favorite "sky is falling" scenario.

Agreed! However I highly doubt that I will ever ever ever see either one of those...:%

Luckily I have begun a 401K which will have lots of time to mature.....but that is anything but a safety net.

As more and more baby boomers retire, we will really see how bad the situation is, hopefully in enough time to "fix" it.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Democracy as we know it

OldMercsRule: I don't agree about the part ranting against illegals. If we do it right that can and will help with a lot of our demographic problems I raise here. Most Mexicans n' Central n' South Americans are Christians with a very strong work ethic, (very unlikely to strap on a bomb or fly a plane into a building to kill people). They can be pandered to by the worst of the American Pols Dems n' Wobblies, or encouraged by the best to become responsible Cornservatives, n' accept personal responsibility for their lives. Respectfully JR

nono.gif
Respectfully if the cost of the mexican boom and illegal @ that was truly known in term's of social welfare dollar's crime and drug problem's ohh and the burden placed on the education system was truly known .............you would not say that.

It's been a terrible investment and done illegally, this arrogance by our leader's is part of the problem's this country faces..............You need to take a little trip to south L.A. ...............live there for awhile you might take a different tune my freind. Imagine the burden 10 million people place on a country's socail welfare system they come here with little or nothing,as a asset mgr you do the math......:'( there is a cost to everything you should know that well,
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Democracy as we know it

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

Apparantly, this has been floating around the Internet like a turd in the Chattahoochee River South of Atlanta since around 2000. IMO it would have been a good discussion and a lot harder to disagree with had the whole topic not used BS to support its claims.

YABUT..................
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Democracy as we know it

i386 said:
... this has been floating around the Internet like a turd in the Chattahoochee River....

You sure got a way with words.... and a purty mouth! :love: :}
 

OldMercsRule

Captain
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
3,340
Re: Democracy as we know it

Tail_Gunner said:
OldMercsRule: I don't agree about the part ranting against illegals. If we do it right that can and will help with a lot of our demographic problems I raise here. Most Mexicans n' Central n' South Americans are Christians with a very strong work ethic, (very unlikely to strap on a bomb or fly a plane into a building to kill people). They can be pandered to by the worst of the American Pols Dems n' Wobblies, or encouraged by the best to become responsible Cornservatives, n' accept personal responsibility for their lives. Respectfully JR

nono.gif
Respectfully if the cost of the mexican boom and illegal @ that was truly known in term's of social welfare dollar's crime and drug problem's ohh and the burden placed on the education system was truly known .............you would not say that.

[colour=blue]I may not know everything TG, (shocking admission I know), but I am aware of much of the costs n' burdens you raise, (which I think you are vastly over emphasizing). I think you are a Cornservative as I am, and most Cornservatives will find points to debate as you and I have. I may have intentionally emphasized the positive or half full part of the "glass of water", and you have taken the half empty part that Libs usually whine about. Let's engage here. The Libs who worship big government on the backs of various losers, (see Michael Medved's article I posted yesterday: Townhall.com; [the title got zapped]), have done their best to set up the 'nany state' to hook the underprivledged masses. That said, Kalifornia is one of the worst examples because the big city folk look down their Liberal noses at the real producers from the Cornservative parts of Kalifornia and paid for their collective Liberal guilt by providing benefits designed to hook the poor, that the illegals now take advantage of. A clear thinking communicator could, (and eventually will IMHO fix those intentionally created problems, [created by Libs to assure their power]). Those people, (the illegals) have much more good then bad for all of us. How would you like to have Japan's demographic problems: TG? They are soooo bigoted they allow very little immigration and they are in an undeniable decline. How about Western Europe: TG? They have a demographic problem almost as bad as Japan, and they bring in members of the Religion o' Peace ta burn cars n' attack the police n' set off bombs. Hopefully ya don't want that either. We really have it real good, and if we can use our brains n' think critically we can turn the lemons you are whinnin' about into lemonade! Sorry to be soooooo positive TG, can't help it! [/colour]

It's been a terrible investment and done illegally, this arrogance by our leader's is part of the problem's this country faces..............You need to take a little trip to south L.A. ...............live there for awhile you might take a different tune my freind. Imagine the burden 10 million people place on a country's socail welfare system they come here with little or nothing,as a asset mgr you do the math......:'( there is a cost to everything you should know that well,

[colour=blue]Yes, TG. That said: the design in Kalifornia is to hook victims to assure power. If politics of Libs and Dems were overcome, (HUGE PROBLEM FOR KALIFORNIA AND AMERICA), a thoughtfull self help and personal responsibility based model for government services could turn that situation from "lemons" into "lemonade". Thank God productive God fearin' people want to work and live in the USA TG!! It's a good thing my friend!! Respectfully, JR[/colour]
 

stevieray

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,135
Re: Democracy as we know it

JR - it worked...I got your PM & replied to it OK.
SRK
 
Top