I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Payne

Seaman
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Mar 4, 2006
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55
First off, sorry for the long post.

I took my '91 Reinell with 4.3 OMC HO engine out for the first time yesterday on the Columbia River. I de-winterized it before hand and ran it on the muffs for about 15 min. to check for problems of which there seemed to be none. I launched and ran for about 30 min. without any problems; running smooth and normal temperature. Then while running about 3800 rpms the engine gave a "pop" sound and kind of had a momentary miss. I quickly back it down to 2500 and it gave anouther pop. I then looked at the temp. gauge and it was pegged. I shut it down and let it idle for a short time (less than a minute), but the temp didn't go down, so I shut it off. Steam billowed out of the doghouse and it gave anouther "pop". I figured I had better at least let it cool down, so we spent about 30 minutes trying to paddle it out of the shipping channel (the current is pretty fierce there and barges do not attempt to avoid small craft). I checked the hoses and they were all tight and whole. I then tried the starter, but it just clunked without turning over. I knew then it was bad.

I'll leave out the parts where we had to paddle through Cascade Locks and were only saved from being carried way downstream by a big eddy that swirled us within reach of the shore and the launching ramp.

I checked the oil and it was at the full mark and not milky. I pulled the drains and all water flowed from the manifolds and the block. Then I pulled the plugs and, you guessed it, water in # 3&5 and 2&4. I turned the starter and pumped out all the water that would come out.

So I have had several beers and am trying to think where I go from here. Is it both head gaskets? Manifolds? Did the impeller let go and cause the overheat that caused the other promlems (although I changed it last August)?

I really don't want to take it to a mechanic and pay for him to just tell me ithe engine is toast. I am able to replace head gaskets myself. Or heads, or manifolds, if that's what it takes, but if it is totally shot, I don't want to waste my time and money. Especially on the OMC.

So, could anybody give me some advise about what you think may have happened and what steps I should take first? If it is totally shot, would it be worthwhile in the long run to convert it to a system that is still it business?

thanks, and sorry again about the long post
 

Bondo

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

I Guess a Compression Test would be a Good Place to Start...........

A Waterpump Impeller Inspection would be Nice too......

I wouldn't Worry about a Total Rerigging of the Hull just Yet........

Are you any kinda Mechanic,..??....
 

Don S

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Along with that compression test, look at the spark plugs when you pull them out. Any water on any of them. After you get them out turn the engine over and see if water comes out of any of the plug holes.
Do you have raw water cooling or a heat exchanger with a closed cooling system?
 

Payne

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Mar 4, 2006
Messages
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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

I do have a compression tester, so I'll start there after work tomorrow. Am I looking for a certain number, or just looking for a big difference in cylinder pressures? Are we looking for valve damage or ring damage? Or both? (or, God forbid, a hole in a piston)

No, not a mechanic, just a old guy that never had a lot of spare money and was good about figuring out how things work. I have rebuilt VW engines several times in my younger days. I also am pretty good about reading and understanding manuals. So, I figure if I have a manual and don't get in a rush, I could change a head gasket and the like.
 

Payne

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

I did pull the plugs, Don, and had lots of water. It is a fresh water system and I have no idea if the manifolds have ever been changed. It has only been in fresh water, supposedly.
 

Bondo

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Well,...... With the Help available Here,..... You're Probably Mechanic Enough.........

Don,.... Payne Already found the Water,...... Now it's a Question of Why.....
 

Don S

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Then I pulled the plugs and, you guessed it, water in # 3&5 and 2&4. I turned the starter and pumped out all the water that would come out.

Momma was right, I really do need new glasses........... Duh!!!!

Ever done a leakdown test Payne ? or even just pressurizing a cylinder and listening for leaks to help determine where it's at?

Still need to know if you are raw water cooled or have a closed cooling system.
 

Payne

Seaman
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Mar 4, 2006
Messages
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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Yes, this forum is the best place for getting the straight skinny on how to get things done.
While I'm here, I forgot to say that the cylinders that had water in them also had spark plugs that came out too easily, like they had backed out a tad. The other 2 seemed to be torqued correctly. They all were correct when I started. Don't know if that info will help, but you never know.
 

Payne

Seaman
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Messages
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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

It's a raw water system.
I haven't had much time to check things out yet. I just got in at 5 Pacific after a 4 hour drive from the river. About wrung out about now, too.
I guess I don't know how to do a formal leakdown test, but I could hear if I was leaking compression, I think. Should I replace a plug in just one cylinder and turn it over from the crank pulley? Then repeat for each cylinder?
 

Payne

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Mar 4, 2006
Messages
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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Thanks, Reel Poor. I actually just read that link seconds ago. I may actually be able to borrow the tool. There is no way to get it warmed up to start, but it should at least tell me something.
 

Bondo

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Ayuh,...... For the Answers you're looking for,... A Cold motor will be Fine.......
 

bjcsc

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1,805
Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Well what you heard and experienced sounds like exactly what happened to me about 4 years ago. Same sound, same experience after. Mine turned out to be dropped valve. A crescent moon piece of the #3 intake valve broke off, got sucked back into the intake and then deposited in the #5 cylinder where it embedded itself into the top of the piston. According to the shop, my engine had had a small water leak in the intake manifold that eventually tempered the valve to the point of it shattering. Becasue of the water intrusion for who knows how long (all valves were rusty), I replaced the engine. I'd only had the boat for about 1 1/2 yrs at that point. Anyway, a leakdown test will probably find your problem. But here's what mine looked like:

2135044Head.JPG
 

ladykaye

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Apr 9, 2007
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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

We are experiencing a similar problem. We are clueless on how to fix our problem. Our boat we just bought is leaking antifreeze in side. We where out on the Willamette and it started to smell hot and white smoke poured out the back. We turned it off and ran ashore to let it cool. We opened the cover and there was antifreeze in the water in the boat. We put more antifreeze in it drank it all. We started it up again and after a few minutes it started to smoke again. So we ran it a little longer so we could go to the dock and pull it up. We docked and shut the engine off. We grabbed our rig and started it up again and drove it on to our trailer. That is the last time it ever ran. We have been calling every boat repair place and everyone is booked. We took the starter off and bought a new one and took it to the water to test it, no start so we put the old starter back on and took the new one back to the store. We also checked the batteries. They seem fine. When you turn the key you get a small sound and you can look at the fly wheel and it won't turn. We are hoping and praying we don't have a dead engine as we just bought the boat used and we really can't afford a new engine. I am not even sure how to post a new question, so sorry for the intrusion as we are pretty desperate for an answer even if its bad news.
 

Bondo

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Welcome Aboard LadyKaye, to the forums here at iboats,.........
You'll do Much Better by starting a thread with your Question,.....
In the Engine Forum, the page you saw before This 1,.... There's a Button at the Upper Left Corner that says "New Thread",.... Click it,+ C&P this Question There......
You want to add the Required Info,....
What Motor,....???
What Drive,..???
Which Manufacturer of the Eng./ Drive,..???
What Year of Them,..???

Myself,+ Others will be More than Happy to figure out the Best Way to get you Back On the Water........
 

whywhyzed

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Feb 1, 2005
Messages
1,871
Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Payne, thanks for the details of the ordeal...You just sold me on getting a kicker bracket for my boat....something I have been putting off too long.
 

Payne

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Mar 4, 2006
Messages
55
Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Wow, bjcsc, those are some impressive pictures! If I see that when I open it up, I'll just replace the engine also. And I have water in both banks, so my trouble may be double.

Well, I found a mechanic friend that has the leakdown tool and is willing to lend it to me. He advised against doing the test, however. He reasons that if there is water in the cylinders, the heads will have to come off, no matter what the problem happens to be. He says I should just pull the heads and manifolds and start checking gaskets, heads, manifolds, and the block for cracks. He even offered the use of his home shop to do the job. Now, that's a friend.

He isn't a boat mechanic, however. The wisdom on this site is tremendous. Will the leakdown test give information that pulling the heads won't do?

And I am wondering how long blocks last with raw water cooling. This one is 16 years old. I really don't want to have problems in a year if it can be helped. And drifting without power in the Columbia should be enjoyed just once in a lifetime.

Remember, I am not questioning anyones judgement, I just want to do it right the first time.

kjdkjd, after only 30 minutes for paddleing, my wife wanted to know why I hadn't bought a kicker. I bit my tounge and didn't remind her that she put up such a fuss about the cost that I postponed it until next winter. She also said she would never go out with me again without one.

I'm still weighing the pros and cons on that....
 

Reel Poor

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5,522
Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Wow, bjcsc, those are some impressive pictures! If I see that when I open it up, I'll just replace the engine also. And I have water in both banks, so my trouble may be double.

if there is water in the cylinders, the heads will have to come off, no matter what the problem happens to be. He says I should just pull the heads and manifolds and start checking gaskets, heads, manifolds, and the block for cracks.

He's really 99.9999% accurate. The leak test may show you that only one head my need to come off. That's probably the only benefit of the testing at this point. :(
 

Bondo

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Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

Ayuh,....... I Agree,.....

But,....
I think it's Better going in to fix a Problem that's Already Identified,......

Rather than Tearing it Down,+ Hunting for a Problem......
 

I/O WALDO

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Nov 16, 2005
Messages
320
Re: I know it's bad news, but how bad?

And fix yer overheat alarm too!
 
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