Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

[PW2]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Not entirely clear on what you mean by this all, PW. Does it mean we will still have to let Muslims get drivers licences with their face picture covered by burkas? Does it mean that we will have to start installing toilets facing away from Mecca?

I can see it now, American Courts uphold the legislated law (The AMTA) that all public toilets face west.

I'd start to worry about stuff once it becomes a problem, but there is plenty of real stuff to worry about, without inventing new things that have yet to happen.
Show me a government directive that specifies the compass designation of all public toilets, or a rule that eliminates a photo requirement on driver's licenses, and perhaps I'll worry about it then. Until then, it sounds like this problem exists mostly in the minds of paranoid right wingers.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Those are restrictions of freedom. Any and all laws by definition are restrictions of freedom. Sometimes due to peoples inherent irresponsibilty laws are required to ensure others freedoms, like the freedom of others to live (life) regarding in the blood alcohol levels as they pertain to driving.

Not all laws are bad, many are necessary. But make no mistake, laws are a mechanism to restrict freedom. Some people just are not responsible enough to handle it, hence laws.

My comment was in regards to Gods "permission" for us to own guns. God gave us permission by birth, man removes this freedom with laws. Laws are oppressive by design, but not necessarily inherently bad. In our country the right to bear arms is guaranteed. There are some who would like to see this removed, there is a process for this, but most in this crowd are not interested in the "Laws" for changing our laws. Therein lies the problem.

You have (sort of) echoed the point I was trying to make - some restrictions are welcomed to protect the majority from the minoirity as long as the majority want those restrictions. Point in question - Australia's gun laws.

I do take issue with with part of your statement though, legislators guaranteed your right to bear arms, God had nothing to do with it.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

I do take issue with with part of your statement though, legislators guaranteed your right to bear arms, God had nothing to do with it.

God made the wise Legislators?

 

[burroak]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

PM2,

The first indication that one is absent the facts or is losing the debate is an ad hominem attack. I must say that you hold off the "paranoid right winger" stuff until the end. I got sucked into reading your post as legitimate argument. Start with the invective; it will allow all to decide how to spend our reading time.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

God made the wise Legislators?

indeed He did.

 

[PW2]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

PM2,

The first indication that one is absent the facts or is losing the debate is an ad hominem attack. I must say that you hold off the "paranoid right winger" stuff until the end. I got sucked into reading your post as legitimate argument. Start with the invective; it will allow all to decide how to spend our reading time.

Ok, it's a problem that doesn't exist in reality. It apparently exists somewhere, or it wouldn't be mentioned. Where it exists is up to you to guess, I suppose.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

You have (sort of) echoed the point I was trying to make - some restrictions are welcomed to protect the majority from the minoirity as long as the majority want those restrictions. Point in question - Australia's gun laws.

I do take issue with with part of your statement though, legislators guaranteed your right to bear arms, God had nothing to do with it.

VERY VERY WRONG; BOOM IS SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Dunaruna, and also Mrbscott19, I mean no disrespect here but I need to set the record straight and show all US Citizens on this forum and others from around the world where the First Ten Amendments to the US Constitution came from and WHY they are there. The Declaration of Independence that initiated this Great Country STATED CLEARLY FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE that certain RIGHTS were "SELF EVIDENT and ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR". I am not sure what I can say if you folks can't understand those very plain and timeless words. Here in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, when we threw off the chains of Monarchy we let the world know that our first ten rights THAT ALL US CITIZENS HAVE did not come from a King or Queen, or a Church or a Government. THOSE RIGHTS CAME FROM A CONSIDERABLY HIGHER POWER. I also like Australia and our other sibling English speaking Cousins and our Mother Country too. That said, the rest of you folks, (Aussies specifically), get your rights from a monarchy or your government so your rights are not perminant. I would not feel to good about someone beheading my family because I will not pray to Mecca, and I would have to wait for a bobby to show up to stop 'em. NO THANK YOU. MY RIGHTS ARE PERMINANT: YOURS ARE NOT. THAT IS WHY THE AMERICAN LIBERALS WANT TO CONVINCE US THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS A "LIVING BREATHING DOCUMENT" AND SIMULTANIOUSLY DESTROY CHRISTIANITY AND APPOINT JUDGES TO THE SUPREME COURT THAT ARE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO CONSIDER STUPID EUROPEAN LAW. When that happens, (if we are foolish enough to let it happen) then we will be as helpless as when we were under the rule of the KING. Thanks for reading this, this is not a troll it is a statement of facts. Respectfully, (and I do mean it) JR

 

[burroak]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

VERY VERY WRONG; BOOM IS SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Dunaruna, and also Mrbscott19, I mean no disrespect here but I need to set the record straight and show all US Citizens on this forum and others from around the world where the First Ten Amendments to the US Constitution came from and WHY they are there. The Declaration of Independence that initiated this Great Country STATED CLEARLY FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE that certain RIGHTS were "SELF EVIDENT and ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR". I am not sure what I can say if you folks can't understand those very plain and timeless words. Here in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, when we threw off the chains of Monarchy we let the world know that our first ten rights THAT ALL US CITIZENS HAVE did not come from a King or Queen, or a Church or a Government. THOSE RIGHTS CAME FROM A CONSIDERABLY HIGHER POWER. I also like Australia and our other sibling English speaking Cousins and our Mother Country too. That said, the rest of you folks, (Aussies specifically), get your rights from a monarchy or your government so your rights are not perminant. I would not feel to good about someone beheading my family because I will not pray to Mecca, and I would have to wait for a bobby to show up to stop 'em. NO THANK YOU. MY RIGHTS ARE PERMINANT: YOURS ARE NOT. THAT IS WHY THE AMERICAN LIBERALS WANT TO CONVINCE US THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS A "LIVING BREATING DOCUMENT" AND SIMULTANIOUSLY DESTROY CHRISTIANITY AND APPOINT JUDGES TO THE SUPREME COURT THAT ARE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO CONSIDER STUPID EUROPEAN LAW. When that happens, (if we are foolish enough to let it happen) then we will be as helpless as when we were under the rule of the KING. Thanks for reading this, this is not a troll it is a statement of facts. Respectfully, (and I do mean it) JR

'Nuff said. Whoop!

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

I do not wish to insult or disrepect you or your country, I responded to this thread because Boomyal raised the Australian firearm issue. That is the issue that I would like to debate but that would seem to be impossible without including the Second Amendment & God. It would be foolish of me to even attempt to debate you when our two cultures clash in such a way.

Suffice to say, the American Constitution and the Declaration of Independence has absolutely no bearing on our (Aussie) firearms debate. If you will accept that, let the games begin............................

BTW, the Queen is (at best) a figurehead. The English Monarchy have no teeth in relation to Australia, unlike 230 years ago. You are drawing a very long bow on that issue.

 

[PW2]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

I do not wish to insult or disrepect you or your country, I responded to this thread because Boomyal raised the Australian firearm issue. That is the issue that I would like to debate but that would seem to be impossible without including the Second Amendment & God. It would be foolish of me to even attempt to debate you when our two cultures clash in such a way.

Suffice to say, the American Constitution and the Declaration of Independence has absolutely no bearing on our (Aussie) firearms debate. If you will accept that, let the games begin............................

BTW, the Queen is (at best) a figurehead. The English Monarchy have no teeth in relation to Australia, unlike 230 years ago. You are drawing a very long bow on that issue.

The notion, Duna, that our Declation of Independence and constitution is somehow "Divinely Inspired" is ludicrous on it's face, in the same vein of the old notion of "Divine right of Kings". If it were divinely inspired, we would not need a process in place for amending the constitution.

It is an amazing document, long fought over by many brilliant men that were our founders, but men and mere mortals nonetheless. I'm sure Australia had their own batch of brilliant individuals that came up with their own brilliant, but different, document.

 

[burroak]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

....Declaration of Independence and constitution is somehow "Divinely Inspired" is ludicrous on it's face,...

That statement is not fact, it is a reflection of your belief system. As an atheist, you believe that anything being "divinely inspired" is an anathema to you.

The Social Progressives have perfected the art of throwing out assertions of belief as facts. If you believe your quote, defend and prove it.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

I do not wish to insult or disrepect you or your country, I responded to this thread because Boomyal raised the Australian firearm issue. That is the issue that I would like to debate but that would seem to be impossible without including the Second Amendment & God. It would be foolish of me to even attempt to debate you when our two cultures clash in such a way.

Suffice to say, the American Constitution and the Declaration of Independence has absolutely no bearing on our (Aussie) firearms debate. If you will accept that, let the games begin............................

Dunaruna, You are correct about the two Countries having no connection in a legal disscusion of Firearms, (or any other foundational rights), and I do agree that the two Countries have the same mother country but very different legal foundational structural roots. Australia, is still tied to the mother Country by the Monarch and the British Monarch's abitlity to appoint a Governor General. The Austrailian structure evolved from a fazed independence as the British Empire transformed from a Colonial Empire to a Commonwealth of sub nations. The Aussies picked a three way combination British Monarchy/ US style Federalism, and elements of the Swiss governing structure regarding referendem, that has evolved from 1901, and is not a Republic with the strict rule of law legal structure the United States has specifically limiting the legal power of the US Democracy. The source of Austrailian citizen or "subjects' rights'" is confusing to me as a non Austrailian from the outside observing your evolving governing structure. I believe the Aussie rights are a grant from the British Monarch (in the origional sense), and theoritically could be revoked by said Monarch. Americans had a violent break with the mother Country, and the Founders were very concerned to legally derive ten basic "self evident" rights belonging to all US citizens that were granted by God and therefore no King, Queen, Church, or any other man made organization could remove these ten basic rights. The USA Founding Fathers were primarily concerned with restraining all governmental powers with a strict constitutional republic structure that very intentionally limited the power of the democracy, as well as the three counterbalencing sectors of the Federal government, and the Federalist structure bifocating power between the Feds and individual States. Clearly the other American, (US) posters on this thread are very confused about this IMPORTANT concept as you can see from their posts. I should have directed my rant at Mrbscott19, but your interplay with Boom brought up the profound question, and I could see the obvious confusion of my fellow Americans. Bottom line: the Aussie government is not a Republic structure, (which sets legal limits on the governments' democratically derived power) and the Aussie government is thereby much more powerfull, (in a relative sense to their respective people), and can effect much greater and more rapid change in all things from basic rights of Aussies on up to foriegn affairs. The Aussie Parlementary structure can impose much greater control on ordinary Aussies then the American government can legally do to US citizens, (because of the expressed legal restrictions of the foundational Republic creating Constitution). The Aussie interplay with Britian is confusing, and the actual legal structures that still exist are not actually used. Clearly Aussies are not as distrustfull of their government and mother Country as the Ameirican Founders were.

BTW, the Queen is (at best) a figurehead. The English Monarchy have no teeth in relation to Australia, unlike 230 years ago.

They actually have some legal "teeth", that apparently are just not used. A crisis from inside, (economic civil crisis), or outside, (foriegn born crisis), would be confusing for an outsider as me to totally understand, (as the legal foundations are fuzzy and complex, and evolutionary, some of the evolution being non use).

You are drawing a very long bow on that issue.

Yer right again. My post was really directed less at you then my fellow citizens and to help my fellow Americans who astonishingly don't know that their ten BASIC rights contained in the "Bill of Rights" are directly from GOD FROM THE VERY CLEAR AND PLAIN LANGUAGE IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS WHICH ARE THE FIRST TEN AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. Sorry to use your valid point speaking about Australia to address my confused North American countrymen.

Respectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

The notion, Duna, that our Declation of Independence and constitution is somehow "Divinely Inspired" is ludicrous on it's face, in the same vein of the old notion of "Divine right of Kings". If it were divinely inspired, we would not need a process in place for amending the constitution.

PW2, your lack of basic understanding of your rights and where they come from that is in plain language in the foundational documents: floors me. That High School education (that you must have skipped) or your subsequent partaking of smoke has really effected you. Please read the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, and tell me why they don't mean what they plainly state they mean.

It is an amazing document, long fought over by many brilliant men that were our founders, but men and mere mortals nonetheless.

You clearly lack a basic understanding of the docs that: wow you!!

I'm sure Australia had their own batch of brilliant individuals that came up with their own brilliant, but different, document.

Don't think it was one document but many over many years.

123

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

....Declaration of Independence and constitution is somehow "Divinely Inspired" is ludicrous on it's face,...

That statement is not fact, it is a reflection of your belief system. As an atheist, you believe that anything being "divinely inspired" is an anathema to you.

Not sure PW2 is an atheist, I just think he is totally confused and not well informed. He makes me very ashamed that he was allowed to graduate from the same High School I attended. Hope the rest of iboat members understand their Country better then he does.

The Social Progressives have perfected the art of throwing out assertions of belief as facts. If you believe your quote, defend and prove it.

123

 

[QC]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Off topic part:

I'd start to worry about stuff once it becomes a problem, but there is plenty of real stuff to worry about, without inventing new things that have yet to happen.

Sounds like something you would call "burying your head in the sand" to me . . . I have posted over and over that we should worry more about people killing each other (like today in VA) than Global Warming with comments like above and you (and others) quickly dismiss that thinking. Why with this?

More off topic stuff: On this divinely inspired portion of this discussion . . . Would it be fair to say that these guys were, by today's standards, ALL, very religious guys? And before someone responds with the Thomas Jefferson BS, do a little more research on his religious feelings and writings . . . None of this canned deist BS, do some independent research . . .

Back on topic: On the Aussie language thing, what I find funny, is that in this country if a Government figure had the gonads to suggest requiring English (it is required of citizens BTW) he/she would be compared to Hitler and David Duke, he/she would be called a racist, and his/her career would be over. It is this type of convoluted BS that makes me laugh when Aussies consider the US to somehow be less sensitive, or somehow less equal in the Sensitivity Olympics. I am sure Left leaning US and BBC images of Katrina don't help, but puuuuuuuullllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaasssseeeee . . . (not pointed at your quality posts Aldo)

Oh, BTW, I believe we should have an "official" US language and that it should obviously be English. Oh, and also BTW, why is it that Hispanics need bilingual signs in public places, but no other immigrant group gets them? To me that is soft racism, and not for the reasons you may think. My concern is that bleeding heart, supposed do gooders, must believe that Spanish speakers need more help than Chinese, Italians, Germans, Ugandan, Brazilians etc. etc. etc. Oh, oh and don't give me this "they were here first" BS. If that is true why don't we have signs in Navajo, Sioux, Apache, Pawnee etc. etc. etc. ?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Look out!....
He's making sense!.....​

 

[PW2]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Look out!....
He's making sense!.....​

To whom are you referring, Haut?

I don't see too many people making too much sense here.

 

[QC]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Love U 2 PW . . .

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Back on topic: On the Aussie language thing, what I find funny, is that in this country if a Government figure had the gonads to suggest requiring English (it is required of citizens BTW) he/she would be compared to Hitler and David Duke, he/she would be called a racist, and his/her career would be over.......

 

[justin65]

Re: Aussies Show Immigrants & Liberals the Light........

Way to go Australia!

Maybe the US and EU will follow your lead..

Don?t think we have those people right here today in the US?
Think again?. How about in New York City.

They call them selves the ?Islamic thinkers society? which is another retard group from the Al-Muhajiiroun in the UK.

From their website in NY.
"The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real holocaust is on its way!"