Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

[dave4151]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

The guns did not kill those people. One psycho, a college that didn?t want anymore bad press and a poorly trained/prepared security force killed those people.

If people in this country want to go around with the false sense of security that the police and government can and will protect them is fine with me. Just don?t take away my ability to defend myself.

Let?s model the gun control program after the drug control program, look how well that is working.

Oh yeah, that has been a gun free school since the last campus shooting, this guy must not have got the email.

Take away my gun and I will defend myself with bow and arrow. Take away my bow and arrow and I will defend myself with a knife. Take away my knife and I will defend myself with a bat. Take away my bat and I will defend myself with a rock I picked up off the ground. Take away my rock and I will defend myself with every last bit of oxygen in my lungs. You will have to kill me to take my ability to defend myself away.

It is not about guns it is about human nature.

 

[KeltonKrew]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I carry everyday...yes I have a permit, passed the class, etc. I don't think students should be armed for the fact stated above, however administrators, professors, etc should have the right to arm themselves and to protect themselves....However I also believe a lot of the professors are on the left and wouldn't do it anyways.

Additionally, you always have, first and foremost, the duty to flee.

and TEXAS just passed the Castle Doctrine.....basically states you no longer have the duty to flee.....that a person has an inherrant right to protect themselves from bodily harm......

 

[stevieray]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

The guns did not kill those people. One psycho, a college that didn?t want anymore bad press and a poorly trained/prepared security force killed those people.

If people in this country want to go around with the false sense of security that the police and government can and will protect them is fine with me. Just don?t take away my ability to defend myself.

Let?s model the gun control program after the drug control program, look how well that is working.

Oh yeah, that has been a gun free school since the last campus shooting, this guy must not have got the email.

Take away my gun and I will defend myself with bow and arrow. Take away my bow and arrow and I will defend myself with a knife. Take away my knife and I will defend myself with a bat. Take away my bat and I will defend myself with a rock I picked up off the ground. Take away my rock and I will defend myself with every last bit of oxygen in my lungs. You will have to kill me to take my ability to defend myself away.

It is not about guns it is about human nature.

I agree - and for the gun control advocates out there, your paragraph can be modified as follows & applies just as well:

Take away a psycho's gun and he will murder with bow and arrow. Take away a psycho's bow and arrow and he will murder with a knife. Take away a psycho's knife and he will murder with a bat. Take away a psycho's bat and he will murder with a rock he picked up off the ground. Take away a psycho's rock and he will murder with every last bit of oxygen in his lungs. You will have to kill a psycho to take his ability to murder away.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Sources: College gunman left note


By Aamer Madhani
Tribune national correspondent
Published April 17, 2007, 11:24 AM CDT

<<BLACKSBURG, Va. -- The suspected gunman in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, Cho Seung-Hui, was a troubled 23-year-old senior from South Korea who investigators believe left an invective-filled note in his dorm room, sources say.>>
<<The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. They said Cho also died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.>>

Anybody here have a clue too what these word mean??. "Ismail Ax"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...0,1137509.story?coll=chi-homepagepromo440-fea

 

[xtraham]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Ismail bin Jafar, the religious figure of which Ismaili Shiah Muslims follow and are named after.
AX, the demon, or is a mathematical equation

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Tommays, I am sure he would do something rather than watch someone else get killed. I am not claming that all of America has turned into wimps, but it certainly seems to be increasing.

There are ways to diffuse the situation and it sounds like our teachers and students should probably be trained for this. The key to surving this situation is to keep your head and that comes from training.

Ken

 

[Pony]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Making guns illegal helps the criminals- ask the British.

" Britain's 46 homicides involving firearms last year was the lowest since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded 590 homicides last year. "


Now, like I said, I am not for gun-control. I personally think that if someone wants to get a gun they will get one no matter what. I do think though that we need to look at our assumptions that the British are seeing an increase in crime. That excerpt was in the local paper. The following was two paragraphs down:

"But even in Germany, where gun-control laws are strict, a teenager in 2002 shot and killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two students and a police officer at a high school. The shooter was a gun club member licensed to own weapons. "

What this says to me, is that the problem is the people, not the guns. People kill people, guns dont. I think I agree with most of you who say that teachers/faculty should be allowed to carry. That being said, I also agree that most of them wont anyways. A ban on handguns wont do a single thing, if you can still use your hunting rifle.

As for the "pussification" comment.....my guess is that unless you are in the situation personally, you shouldnt comment. I to would like to think that I would do something, but what exactly can you do? Going up against a rifle or any gun is suicide. These people are messed up in the head and won't be reasoned with. All you can do is save yourself and maybe get some others out safe with you..........

 

[Coors]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

" Britain's 46 homicides involving firearms last year was the lowest since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded 590 homicides last year. "


Now, like I said, I am not for gun-control. I personally think that if someone wants to get a gun they will get one no matter what. I do think though that we need to look at our assumptions that the British are seeing an increase in crime. That excerpt was in the local paper. The following was two paragraphs down:

"But even in Germany, where gun-control laws are strict, a teenager in 2002 shot and killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two students and a police officer at a high school. The shooter was a gun club member licensed to own weapons. "

What this says to me, is that the problem is the people, not the guns. People kill people, guns dont. I think I agree with most of you who say that teachers/faculty should be allowed to carry. That being said, I also agree that most of them wont anyways. A ban on handguns wont do a single thing, if you can still use your hunting rifle.

As for the "pussification" comment.....my guess is that unless you are in the situation personally, you shouldnt comment. I to would like to think that I would do something, but what exactly can you do? Going up against a rifle or any gun is suicide. These people are messed up in the head and won't be reasoned with. All you can do is save yourself and maybe get some others out safe with you..........

for Pony www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/21/205139.shtml - 27k - Apr 16, 2007 -

 

[Coors]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Nope Coors, should not get you canned. Simply said, it shows you do not know as much as you think you know.

Please give support as to what "leftist are teaching." Otherwise it's just BS propaganda. I will then completely understand why you always agree with Boom.

Teachers don't teach apathy, PARENTS DO. Again, place blame where you wish, it simply shows ignorance.

You buy your kid school supplies, the school steals them, and gives them to other kids. Communism, need I go further?

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I think it makes perfect sense for hung-over, sex-crazed, immature 18 year olds to be packing. I say give 'em nukes!

You have to be 21 in almost every state before you can get a concealed weapon permit or even buy a handgun.

A concealed weapons permit (CWP) does not allow you to carry anywhere you want to. In general, you can't carry in any public buildings (libraries, schools, churches, etc.), you can't carry in government buildings, you can't carry on private property without the consent of the owner, etc.. Additionally, you always have, first and foremost, the duty to flee. Most of your states' laws are probably online somewhere...

Most of that is wrong. Every state is different. "Public buildings" where you can't carry is usually restricted to government buildings such as post offices and court houses. Banks, libraries, schools, and churches can ask you nicely not to carry, but that's the extent of their authority. I know Oregon specifically allows permit holders to be armed inside any school, even an elementry school. You don't have to ask any private property owner if you can bring a gun onto their property, they can only ask you to leave if they somehow find out. Also, there was just a supreme court ruling in Oregon stating that you DO NOT have to flee before using deadly force.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Quote Pony: "As for the "pussification" comment.....my guess is that unless you are in the situation personally, you shouldnt comment. I to would like to think that I would do something, but what exactly can you do? Going up against a rifle or any gun is suicide. These people are messed up in the head and won't be reasoned with. All you can do is save yourself and maybe get some others out safe with you.........."/quote

Sure glad the passengers of flight 93 didn't think like that. They sacrificed themselves to save God knows how many on the ground.

As for allowing the staff to arm themselves, how many left wing, tree hugging professors do you think would take up a weapon? I think not many.

It was a tragedy what happened, no doubt about it, but gun control will NOT prevent this type of violence from happening. If someone has it in their mind to do something like this, it's going to happen.

 

[burroak]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I saw more than 1 comment here on DC & at work, that if some of the students had been armed, things might have gone differently....
I don't think today's incident supports that position.....​

Random students being armed would not be my preference. What do you think of using discharged military personnel that will be going to college with tuition money earned in service as security, much like the air marshals on all international flights? If they don't have urban warfare training, give it to them before discharge.

The colleges could pick up the tab for credit hours, since that just buys a seat in a lecture hall of 150 students. While the ex-soldier/student is getting a college education, providing security in zero response time where it is needed, and fulfilling his/her reserve obligation, everyone comes out ahead. This is an ample, trained, motivated, patriotic labor pool to be tapped. Thousands of classrooms, dorms, quads, etc. would have the benefit of instant responders.

 

[ob]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I view this as an isolated incident.If the day comes where this becomes predictable commonplay , instead of arming or body armoring my child or myself at a public school or college campus,then perhaps it's time to look into home schooling or on-line college courses.Just like I would avoid a rough side of town night club or barrio.I wouldn't worry about whether I was armed or not.I simply wouldn't go into them in the first place.In this particular case I feel that the campus security or lack of failed miserably.

 

[Coors]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

A nut with a weapon is always going to happen. sooner or later. So don't try to restrict my capability of self defense is my point.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Most of that is wrong. Every state is different. "Public buildings" where you can't carry is usually restricted to government buildings such as post offices and court houses. Banks, libraries, schools, and churches can ask you nicely not to carry, but that's the extent of their authority. I know Oregon specifically allows permit holders to be armed inside any school, even an elementry school. You don't have to ask any private property owner if you can bring a gun onto their property, they can only ask you to leave if they somehow find out. Also, there was just a supreme court ruling in Oregon stating that you DO NOT have to flee before using deadly force.

ZmOz: I wasn't posting Oregon's carry info, I was posting South Carolina's. Every state is different, I made the assumption that the majority of the people here are aware that states have their own laws for everything. However, the majority of states have very similar laws that are similar to SC's regarding the specific things I posted, which is what I meant by "in general". The duty to flee is not about running first, or getting shot in the back, etc.. It basically means that if you could have fled a situation (left), without more risk, and you chose instead to use deadly force, you will be prosecuted. We may be using the same terms for a different situation. Don't be so sure a similar statute doesn't exist there as well. For example, here's Oregon's code regarding carrying on school property (even an elementary school):

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

(f) Possession of a firearm on school property if the firearm:

(A) Is possessed by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm; and

(B) Is unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle.


Bottom line is, if you're carrying you better know the laws - because the State does...

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Random students being armed would not be my preference. What do you think of using discharged military personnel that will be going to college with tuition money earned in service as security, much like the air marshals on all international flights? If they don't have urban warfare training, give it to them before discharge.

The colleges could pick up the tab for credit hours, since that just buys a seat in a lecture hall of 150 students. While the ex-soldier/student is getting a college education, providing security in zero response time where it is needed, and fulfilling his/her reserve obligation, everyone comes out ahead. This is an ample, trained, motivated, patriotic labor pool to be tapped. Thousands of classrooms, dorms, quads, etc. would have the benefit of instant responders.

How 'bout mothers just staying at home, nurturing and loving their children? Then we would not have so many disgruntled, attention seeking, troublesome children!

When I went to school, one in ten children did not have a mother at home. The one underattended child could not help being influenced by the other nine.

Today, you'd be lucky if one child, in ten, did have a mother at home. His behavioral influence on the other nine underattended children is nil.

Connect the dots! This is not to say that this unfortunate incident could not have happened at any time in history, but what is the recognized as the beginning time for the rise of troubled youth?

I daresay, it all started when the family taxes skyrocketed above the 5% my father paid , chasing the mother out into the work place and the Feminists declared that women were not whole if they stayed at home and baked cookies for their man (and children)

 

[Coors]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

Watch what you say Boom; someone already accused us as being joined at the hip.

 

[Kalifornyakid]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I'd say Boom hit a home run!

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

However, the majority of states have very similar laws that are similar to SC's regarding the specific things I posted, which is what I meant by "in general". The duty to flee is not about running first, or getting shot in the back, etc.. It basically means that if you could have fled a situation (left), without more risk, and you chose instead to use deadly force, you will be prosecuted.

The only one of your "in generals" that applies to the majority of states is carry in a public building; however, public buildings don't usually include private institutions like banks. Places like banks may have signs asking you not to carry, but in most states, that doesn't mean it's illegal, simply frowned upon.

As for the duty to flee, again, many states specifically say you DO NOT have to make any attempt to flee. Someone was sent to jail for that here in 2001, and the supreme court recently ruled he's free to go because that is in fact perfectly legal. Many other states are the same way.

 

[stevieray]

Re: Gunfight at the DC Corral.....

I think that has a lot to do with it, Boom. I would also venture a guess that it could have something to do with sheer numbers. What were there, 170 million or so in the US when you were in school? Now there's just over 301 million. That alone just about doubles the possible amount of nutcases out there. Add to that the incessant exposure to violence by just the entertainment industry & the chances of a disaster go up even more. Just more food for thought.