Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

[cbavier]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

He can go to Ebay and check his questions he ask the seller to see if indeed he did ask and he also will get the response from the seller. If the seller was not trying to hide anything or decieve him he probably will make it right with him and everybody will be sort of happy.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Well, I can't check my old emails between myself and the seller because eBay expires the emails after a month or so. However, I probably have backups of my mail directory on my local machine, so I will also dig though that to get the entire conversation between myself and the seller.

In the mean time, I am fixing it and will be enjoying it very much.

And I have learned a good lesson and am glad it was under $2000!! So it could be way worse.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

OK, I restored my emails and the response to my questions about the condition of the boat is pasted below in italics. There is no mention of the leaks. (This is exactly how the seller wrote to me, by the way)

I was waqlking on the floor two days ago and dont remember any soft spots.
I believe the boat is ready to use (except make sure you have gas and the battrie is charged) The max hp is 140. I have not run the motor since last
fall, but if my memory it ok I believe the gauges work.

The only thing I would look at doing soon is replacing the tires on the trailer.

I am still trying to locate my questions to the seller, but those were sent via the ebay message system and I don't seem to have copies of those. I will still see what I can find. I do know the response above did not answer all the questions I had asked, I just wish I could remember more specifically what I had said to him. I am 90% certain I asked if it leaked and that is one of the overlooked questions. But I just can't be 100% certain. Regardless, a boat with the rate of leakage this one had would not be considered 'ready for use' as this dealer asserts.

Anyhow, it is what is is, and I learned something from the experience, but also, I have a cool boat, and I think I can fix it just fine.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Well, I did some more digging, and with some more effort, I should have a copy of all the messages I sent to the seller and will look for it later because eBay does always send me a copy. I run my own mail server so I have all incoming messages stored in logs and on server backups. I'll let you guys know what I find, it will just take a bit of time.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Here's what I had asked the seller, "Is there anything that I should fix or know about before using the boat?"

 

[cbavier]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Sounds like you got him in a corner to me. If it was leaking before....HE HAD TO KNOW... and that he didn't disclose it to you that it leaked. That is Fraud!


What was his reply to your question? You never said. Keep that reply documented, but like I said earlier. Give him a chance.

Remember you can catch more Fly's with Honey than you can with Vinegar. In other words, be sweet.

Jahovee's law. You push me. I'll push back! BE SWEET and give the seller a chance to make it right. DON'T Threaten Him with if you don't.... I will.....!!!

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

I'm sorry...I posted his reply earlier in the thread. Here is is again:

I was waqlking on the floor two days ago and dont remember any soft spots.
I believe the boat is ready to use (except make sure you have gas and the battrie is charged) The max hp is 140. I have not run the motor since last
fall, but if my memory it ok I believe the gauges work.

The only thing I would look at doing soon is replacing the tires on the trailer.

Regarding your advice, I have a conversation via email asking about the leaks and the seller wrote back that "he was open and honest about the leaks". Therefore, I can use this email to support my claim the seller knew about the leaks.

I had already communicated with the seller about working something out in an amicable way and he was not willing to help. I therefore replied with a demand letter that expires tomorrow and I'm working on my complaint and summons so I can file on Monday. I'm also fixing up the boat so I can enjoy it!!

My resolution process is to first raise the issues, ask for help resolving. Try a few times. Then, if not resolved, issue a final demand letter. Usually the court would like an attempt to resolve before filing and this is said attempt.

 

[cbavier]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Deerehunter
It sounds like you have taken the right steps. I know I had gotten into a legal hassle over a car motor that had been doctored up and after trying to right a wrong with the seller failed. My Attorney wrote the seller a letter giving him 30 days to repond before we filed legal action.

We did indeed go to court and it cost the seller $1800 for a new short block plus all Court Costs and Attorney Fees.

It doesn't pay for a seller to be purposely crooked. The seller may get away a few times because some people won't take that extra step. But there is always someone down the road that will.

Good luck and keep us posted as to the outcome of this whole matter. Happy Boating and don't let this spoil your fun this summer. We plan to splash Tuesday or Wednesday next week. Hopefully it will warm up soon. It was 35 Dg here this morning and suppose to be the same tonight. BRRrrrrrrrr Heavy Frost in Northern Michigan.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Thank you for your support. I fully intend to keep the thread updated with the resolution outcome.

Regarding your car, did you purchase and repair the new short block before the suit or did you recover amounts and then get the work done?

 

[cbavier]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Deerehunter

It was a 1986 Pontiac Grand Am that I had drove five miles from the seller to my home. It had a Cracked block and the seller had put liquid Sealer in it. I drove it into our garage and parked it. Then went in to eat supper , came out and it had dumped all the oil on the garage floor.

SOOoooooooo I called our local Pontiac Dealer and they came and towed the car to the Dealership. When they pulled the oil pan the next day they could see where the seller had put the liquid steel or something to full the crack, hide the problem.

I had the Pontiac dealer get me a Short Block and switch the rest of the parts
from the old motor to the new one. The Dealership signed a Certified letter stating the whole scenerio. When we went into Court my Attorney reserved the right to supena the Mechanic but the judge said it wasn't necessary.

The Dealership is a very Large and well respected Pontiac Dealership. They had been in buisness in the Flint area for probably 50 or more years at that time 1989. In fact they are still in the same location today. The Son's run it and probably own it too now

I had several notorized letters from the Wrecker Driver, Service Manager, Licensed Certified Mechanic to back me. A clear case of deliberate fraud. The only thing I can see (and of course I'm not an Attorney or expert) is the seller will probably try to say something like. Well it didn't leak when I had it
he must have done something to it. Hit something or ran it aground or_____?

When you buy from a Dealer they have to give some kind of warrantee or back it up to be what they say it is but like someone said else when you buy from a private party it is pretty much "Buyer Be-Ware".

So if you have the boat fixed, the leak, which you should do and you lose just be prepared to eat the repair bill and use it as a lesson learned the hard way. But if you should win in court you can laugh at the seller all the way to the bank.

Expect 6 months to a year if your court ststem is anything like Michigans. So
I would say take it to a Dealership or marina and get it fixed so you and your family can safely use the boat this summer.

BoatUS strongly suggests even on brand new boats that the Buyer hire a Licensed Surveyor, Get a Certified Mechcanical Survey and Sea Test the boat before putting a penny on it. All at the Buyers Cost but then the Surveyors are working for you not the seller.

I suggest or recommend that the Sea Test or Trial last at least an hour putting the boat through all it's paces. Troll, Cruise and run WOT . If after an hour it's runs good , sounds good and there are no obvious problems then buy it.

That's what I did with my boat and I've had no problems.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Resolved!!

Well, after some unpleasantries, the seller and I agreed to a resolution. We are both glad to have this matter closed. I have been reimbursed $750 for repair expenses. Thank you all so much for your thoughts, support and suggestions.

Here's a list of stuff I've fixed so far:

Boat
Rivets are currently being repaired
Rotton wood sections of the floor repaired
Fuel guage sending unit replaced
Wiring repair/replace
New bilge pump
Two new batteries (I knew about this before the sale, though)

Motor:
Carb rebuild, one replaced (one out of three)
Sync and link
Water pump rebuild
Decarbon motor
Lower unit lube--of coures!!
May need powerhead rebuild at some point, but seems to be ok for now. Got to 5000 RPM but didn't want to push it too much more.

Trailer:
All new brake lines
New wheel cylinders
New wheel bearings and races
New acutator
New tires (I knew about this, though)
New lights and wiring

Stuff still do do maybe:
Replace wood on the gunwales
Replace carpet
Replace seat padding in the front.
Bondo or otherwise fill misc. holes drilled for various purposes
Replace broken lights

I think this covers the list. Again, thank you to everyone for your help!!

 

[rndn]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Boats are sold as-is with no warranty in New York unless you are a dealer. If the seller tried to hide a defect then you may have a case.

 

[deerhuntre]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

Thanks for the info. Yes, the seller was a dealer. As I said, the matter is resolved and I did get some compensation!!

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Is it reasonable to expect a seller to disclose leaks?

That's great news! I just read this whole saga (beginning to end) for the first time. What a ride....