Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

[Skinnywater]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I think it was a stupid statement, but I tend to agree with Lott. There is a lot more to this bill than simple amnesty. There are fence timings that trigger a lot of this etc. I don't claim to understand it at all, but from what I am picking up, I am leaning toward it being more of a positive than a negative. The reason is, that it is something as opposed to nothing, and the more you biotch, the more they F with it, the more nothing we will get. At least there are some triggers and accounting, and some counting, and some penalties and some rules. Right now the whole damn thing is a flippin' free for all that we are all allowing to happen, period.

Now to restate my position in general. We have invited these people . . . not only invited, but paid them to hop the fence, swim the river, risk their lives, whatever. They don't assimilate because they are illegal. There are tons of things I don't like about illegal immigration, but you and I hire them. We eat food they picked, we look the other way while corporations pay them 10 - 100 times what they can earn at home. Are they saints? Hell no, they are lawbreakers, but any of you who have eaten a Tyson Chicken are contributing. Heck I am pretty sure the guy that cuts my lawn is illegal, if not, the 4 others he carts around are.

We should seriously control the supply side of this thing, the hiring . . . They will stop coming when we don't pay them to . . . Anybody know where I can get a cheap lawn mower?

Try the 14 year old down the street?
To bad the 16 year old can't wash dishes in this State but an illegal can.

There is a lot more then amnesty. I read much of the bill last night.

Either we have a second class citizens to do our work, a cast system of guest workers or something else.

Something else might be 12-20 million (probably more) "guest workers" who are on the path to citizenship.
As "guest workers" they aren't underground anymore. Instead they are entitled to workman's comp., at least minimum wage, but certainly not for long, since having the legal status they will push the wage and benefit packages up to where many Americans would push a mower.
But don't count on it. A "guest worker" is free to pursue any job and with them all leaving the fields for air conditioning, several million of them, creating a glut in the workforce. Since they're of "legal status" surely some will get unemployment compensation right along with citizen Sam.
The winners again are government and big business. Lower wages/benefits for Tyson's blue collar workers. More social services to grow government.

This or second class citizens isn't an answer.

The previous immigrations laws were what "we" had in mind for illegal aliens.
"We" didn't invite them. Those that are absent in their responsibilitys "invited" them and those that profit from them invited them.

Government doesn't hesitate to enforce it's own laws when it comes to individual citizens or citizen groups, the "we" in all this. Yet they hesitate when federal law is being violated by illegally run businesses.
Businesses compromised genuine national security by choosing to hire illegal workers. They not only have the unfair/illegal advantage over a lawn company that by principal chooses not to break the law. Now that illegal business gets amnesty also.

All the wrangling over this legislation should make one think it's to investigate who's breaking the law and how it hurts those that don't.

Sorry, I'll just have to keep harping on these principals.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You don't have much of an idea what I want here King Skinny. Your projections of my positions are false, and I think ya need to take a cold shower and some aspirin n' go ta bed. Maybe you will feel better in the morning. JR

I'm not attacking you, I'm only challenging what you've written or project here.

And I suggest you're taking all this too seriously.

 

[PW2]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

All the politicians, and talk radio, completely misss the point on this issue.

Until there is some sort of a non-tamperable national ID card, where you can hold employers responsible for verifing the status of people they hire, and hold them accountable.

No jobs, no illegal immigration. They won't come unless it pays them to come, and they won't stop as long as the financial incentive remains to come.

No one really wants to solve this problem. They make noises, and bloviate, and get ratings and whatever, but they don't want to really solve it.

The Senate bill specifically prohibits the establishment of a national ID card, and you cannot possibly solve this without one.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

The Senate bill specifically prohibits the establishment of a national ID card, and you cannot possibly solve this without one.

Sure they can PW. JUST CLOSE THE BORDER!! Problem solved. By doing do so, you slow to a trickle, the number of people who are coming in such numbers they cannot (or will not) be assimilated.

Then you decide how to deal with the ones that are already here. The price of lettuce might go up but we will insure that our southwestern states will not become part of Mexico by default.

We are simply being invaded and the invasion is being abetted by a foreign government.

...and puleeeze, don't bother to play the bigot or race card on me. I would feel no different if we were being inundated by French Canadians.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I think I have the perfect solution to our problem; lets merge the United States, With Mexico, and call it the United States of America. Build a fence at the southern tip of the combined Countries at Guatemala; the fence would be much shorter. Shorter fence, less expense, should have no problem getting the conservatives on this bus.

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Try the 14 year old down the street?

I have a 14 YO upstairs . . . but he and I tore apart our lawnmower for a "project" . . . Anybody need a perfectly good B&S engine or a perfectly good lawn mower frame?

I read much of the bill last night.

Cool. You're ahead of me.

As "guest workers" they aren't underground anymore.

Exactly! Yes there are issues with Guest Workers period, but this is a lot better than what we have today which is Nada!!

"We" didn't invite them. Those that are absent in their responsibilitys "invited" them and those that profit from them invited them.

OK, nevertheless, someone did . . . and as citizens we are either co-conspirators, enablers or complacent . . .

Now that illegal business gets amnesty also.

There is a timing issue in the bill that does hamper the previously illegal business, no? Doesn't a "legal" business have a window of opportunity to provide a service before the illegal one can regroup? I am not sure on this, because unlike you I have not read the bill . . . which was one of my points in support of Lott's stupid comments. Most of us think we know, and the reason we think we know is sound bites, or out of context print or blah, blah, blah. But most of us do not "know", yet we hold strong opinions . . . Hmmmmmmm. Good on ya Skinnyman!!!!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I'm not attacking you, I'm only challenging what you've written or project here.

And I suggest you're taking all this too seriously.

Hmmmmm King Skinny, Makin' up a lil' fresh history here? #1 You have projected words into my position about this matter that I NEVER said! #2 You indicated I was not a "true" Cornservative and I was a "poser". #3 You indicated the anyone who's position was what you projected onto me lacked "principals" #4 You indicated that any compromise I may cornsider was to "cheapen" the process or was "dishonest" #5 you indicated I was "naive" with French spelling of the word. Since we don't know each other very well other then an occasional back and forth on the internet I cornsider your interplay a personal attack as you project false positions to me then label me personnaly with the above adjectives. I responded by nick naming you: King Skinny who now decides who are the "true" Cornservatives here on iboats. Apply some critical thinkin' to yer posts and tell me I'm wrong in my take here.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You get that done and I agree 100%. Let me ask a question . . . Why are we not enforcing the laws we have on the books?

BTW, the reason that I am withholding judgement on this bill is I don't know its ins and outs well enough. I would submit that none of you do either. This is also the reason I agree with Trent Lott. Buzz phrases and buzz words do not define or explain this bill . . . Again, I want 100% non-Illegal hiring, but right now we have 100% illegal hiring in some businesses with nothing being done. I am starting to believe that opposition to this bill will insure another 10 years of nothing . . . But go ahead, biotch away without understanding, that's OK with me . . . I, however, think I'll learn a little more first.

Agreed!! JR

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Originally Posted by PW2
The Senate bill specifically prohibits the establishment of a national ID card, and you cannot possibly solve this without one.


Here's a tid bit, We already have a national Id card. It's called a Social Security card and it's a very solid item, while anyone can use a invalid card the SS admin can tell you who it is registered to ....... when they died or if it is indeed a true number.

Now all it would take would be a simple web browser linked up to the SS admin who would simply give a employer a login on .......just like we do here at I-boat's. Enter the SS and it comes back one of three way's valid, invalid or deceased.


This whole thing really stink's.........i ask you if your water heater was leaking all over the basement, would you first fix the leak, or mop up the water,what would you do first... You be the judge.......errr look's like big money and the politician's all ready are and in a way it's good in that it's exposing a lot of BS .

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Originally Posted by PW2
The Senate bill specifically prohibits the establishment of a national ID card, and you cannot possibly solve this without one.


Here's a tid bit, We already have a national Id card. It's called a Social Security card and it's a very solid item, while anyone can use a invalid card the SS admin can tell you who it is registered to ....... when they died or if it is indeed a true number.

Now all it would take would be a simple web browser linked up to the SS admin who would simply give a employer a login on .......just like we do here at I-boat's. Enter the SS and it comes back one of three way's valid, invalid or deceased.


This whole thing really stink's.........i ask you if your water heater was leaking all over the basement, would you first fix the leak, or mop up the water,what would you do first... You be the judge.......errr look's like big money and the politician's all ready are and in a way it's good in that it's exposing a lot of BS .

See, I knew it was all 'Duh'bya's & Cheney's fault.....
Very true........
But there is alot of money to be made by looking the other way.....
How 'bout this-
If'n you are an illegal immigrant on the path to seeking legal status, you must serve a two year hitch in the armed forces.....
This would help with the 'surge' & they would blend in better anyway....

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

See, I knew it was all 'Duh'bya's & Cheney's fault.....
Very true........
But there is alot of money to be made by looking the other way.....
How 'bout this-
If'n you are an illegal immigrant on the path to seeking legal status, you must serve a two year hitch in the armed forces.....
This would help with the 'surge' & they would blend in better anyway....

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

QUE?........

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

If'n you are an illegal immigrant on the path to seeking legal status, you must serve a two year hitch in the armed forces.....

Some how I don't think the Gunney would be too happy to do his haranguing in espanol!

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

quote pw "No jobs, no illegal immigration. They won't come unless it pays them to come, and they won't stop as long as the financial incentive remains to come.

No one really wants to solve this problem. They make noises, and bloviate, and get ratings and whatever, but they don't want to really solve it." end quote

Mark your calenders !!! I agree with pw

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Some how I don't think the Gunney would be too happy to do his haranguing in espanol!

HMMMMMM.....

How do ya say 'maggot' in espanol?.......

La Cucaracha?.....
Is that a universal name for bugs?
Hmmmm..... L.A. Cucaracha....Hmmmmmm.....​

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

quote pw "No jobs, no illegal immigration. They won't come unless it pays them to come, and they won't stop as long as the financial incentive remains to come.

No one really wants to solve this problem. They make noises, and bloviate, and get ratings and whatever, but they don't want to really solve it." end quote

Mark your calenders !!! I agree with pw

That's BS Eric. They come because they can. The borders are wide open. There is virtually no resistance to them coming and certainly few penalties. Jobs be damned. If the border was sealed, they couldn't get here, jobs or no jobs.

We should be able to choose who fills 'THOSE' jobs, not leave it to a horde, abetted by their own government, that has no intention of assimilating into this society, would just as soon have it back under the jurisdiction of the country that they are fleeing because they do not give one huge crap about them.

There are plenty of other cultures around the world that would love to come here and fill those jobs, even if on a temporary basis until they get their bearings in this country. People who would love to be a part of the USA as opposed to those that would make us a part of the country they are fleeing.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

quote pw "No jobs, no illegal immigration. They won't come unless it pays them to come, and they won't stop as long as the financial incentive remains to come.

No one really wants to solve this problem. They make noises, and bloviate, and get ratings and whatever, but they don't want to really solve it." end quote

Mark your calenders !!! I agree with pw

I thought ol' PW2 was right on in that post too: Eric! Some very angry people here and in our society want to force businesses, (like I own), to solve all the immigration proplems that OUR whole society has created over the last 50 years, (both from the Right and Left for different reasons), on the backs of employers.

I don't know about other business owners but Nanny Government does not give me tax dollars, (THEY TAKE MY TAX DOLLARS), to police the problems they refuse to, or intentionally create for future political power, (like anchor babies). Those who do collect tax dollars to hire police like Seattle n' San Francisco n' Portland actually offer sanctuary fer the illegals yet some nit wits want to fine me or throw me in jail if I hire an illegal by mistake, (as my company is small enough that I would not do that intentionally). A national ID card, (which does corncern me) as nearly all Liberals and some Cornservatives are content to continue to transfer personal responsibility to the Nanny Government along with increasing tax dollars, and the potential for abuse grows in direct proportion to the actual size n' scope of the Government. A national ID card and big penalties for hiring someone without one would cut demand for illegal workers very rapidly.

My wish list: #1 A well manned both high and low tech fence: ASAP, #2 I National ID card set up and administered by the Federal government required for any job, or to get any licence used in society, or bank account, with a heavy penalty if ya don't follow the proceedure. #3 Some sort of encouragement to come forward for a temporary legal status, that entails paying a fine or fines, and getting in the back of the line to earn citizenship over a very very long time, as long as the illegal has a clean criminal record, immeadiate revocation of all status and deportation if any crime is commited greater then a speeding ticket. #4 Stop all anchor baby rules. #5 Voting rights only after completing the very long hard slog and going through the line. #6 Denial of all Federal Support to include military or disaster response EVERY SINGLE CENT, to those cities or local governments who offer sactuary to illegals. #7 Zero ability to influance foreign family members to come here.

I have not read the bill nor do I intend to until it looks close to passage.

BTW, the National ID card should be strictly limited by law to ONLY deal with citizenship PERIOD. The tendency to collect child support, IRS debts, and other heavy Liberal Government power plays the Libs would luv would have to be addressed to make the card acceptable. Government power is to be feared: that is one thing I do know, (with only one brain cell and all)!! Respectfully, JR

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

That's BS Eric. They come because they can. The borders are wide open. There is virtually no resistance to them coming and certainly few penalties. Jobs be damned. If the border was sealed, they couldn't get here, jobs or no jobs.

We should be able to choose who fills 'THOSE' jobs, not leave it to a horde, abetted by their own government, that has no intention of assimilating into this society, would just as soon have it back under the jurisdiction of the country that they are fleeing because they do not give one huge crap about them.

There are plenty of other cultures around the world that would love to come here and fill those jobs, even if on a temporary basis until they get their bearings in this country. People who would love to be a part of the USA as opposed to those that would make us a part of the country they are fleeing.

But it's not BS Boom, it a part of the problem. I agree that the borders need to be secured first, before anything else. I have emailed my Representatives stating as much.

But the folks that employee the ILLEGALS need to have their feet held to the fire. Not 1 or 2 big raids a year, it needs to happen everyday and the fines must be severe on employers who hire them. Be it a farmer or a billion dollar company. Don't forget the millions of ILLEGALS that are here that need to be dealt with.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Quote OldMercsRule


My wish list: #1 A well manned both high and low tech fence: ASAP, #2 I National ID card set up and administered by the Federal government required for any job, or to get any licence used in society, or bank account, with a heavy penalty if ya don't follow the proceedure. #3 Some sort of encouragement to come forward for a temporary legal status, that entails paying a fine or fines, and getting in the back of the line to earn citizenship over a very very long time, as long as the illegal has a clean criminal record, immeadiate revocation of all status and deportation if any crime is commited greater then a speeding ticket. #4 Stop all anchor baby rules. #5 Voting rights only after completing the very long hard slog and going through the line. #6 Denial of all Federal Support to include military or disaster response EVERY SINGLE CENT, to those cities or local governments who offer sactuary to illegals. #7 Zero ability to influance foreign family members to come here.

Damn JR, were on the same side of the fence here ,at least partially. #2 national id card, don?t know what the controversy is on that, the Veterans Administration is in the process of being able to put in a number and come up with your medical record any where the have facilities. Shouldn?t be to big a leap too implement another system ,and not have it branded as big brother. #7dont know about this one though, might want to give this one a little more thought .

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

They come because they can.

Are you suggesting they're here on vacation Boomer? Sight seeing? . . . Think again buddy. You espouse (me too) that economic opportunity drives progress etc. Yet these people come because it's like climbing a Mountain? Because it's there? Dude . . . weak . . .

Maybe they're different? They are driven by risk, but not reward? Hmmmmmmm, first time in history, those there must be some special version of the ole Homo Sapien there . . . I DON'T GET IT!!!!