"Middle East Nightmare"

[OldMercsRule]

I hope the insights of this author are wrong. Bet they aren't.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/06/middle_east_nightmare.html

 

[LubeDude]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

I hope the insights of this author are wrong. Bet they aren't.

You are right, they are not wrong! But maybe we can have a little talk with them and offer cookies and milk and they will change there minds. It is after all our fault that they don't like us.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Let me know when you're ready to nuke it.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Let me know when you're ready to nuke it.

What a hack writer......
His obvious political party leaning erases any of the points he tries to make......
Uncle Ronnie could have done more than ship WMD to Saddy & could have nipped The Iranian situation in the bud 25 years ago & did not....
Instead they chose to trade with Iran & hence the scandal.....
It grows tiresome when political hack writers blame every last ill of the country on the Dems....
The Rehubs. have just a s bad a track record.....

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Let me know when you're ready to nuke it.

I know yer likely kiddin' Rubber. That said: It probably does come down to that type of action at some point in the future, which is going to be a real fun period of time, (hope we all survive).

The world's current demographics do favor Islam as the West is aging rapidly, (this article just puts a very fine point about Turkey that I was unaware of, prior to readin it) ,and there is one well known way to deal with religious zelots that wanna kill ya real bad from their training and indoctrination from birth: send them to their maker to sort the issues out.

It will take a very big loss in the West for us acquire the nerve to crush the PC carp that hampers us and get serious about a real serious threat that has been openly brewin' since 1979. The only way to potentially stop the approaching train wreck is put our differences asside and establish a freindly beachhead in the enemy's territory and have the reasonable Muslims reform their own religion from within. Looks like a long shot to me, from this point, as Democrats and Liberals see their domestic political opportunities as a much greater attraction then protecting us from the comming train wreck. N' our own MSM is our enemy's best friend. Hope I'm wrong. JR

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

I am not kidding.

The middle east will never reform and become our friend. They will always hate us. They will always try to kill us. These things will never change.

We can all sit around sippin' latte's till they blow us up or we can do what needs to be done. One way or another it's going to come to that.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

I am not kidding.

The middle east will never reform and become our friend.

I agree that it looks that way now, but they could learn to fear us if we could circle the wagons in a cornvincing fashion, and some critcal ones in a postition of influance could be our friends, (as we have had in that region before), and if those friends worked on reforming their religion, (which will take lot's of blood), it is at least a more benign possiblity then the one you are cornvinced we need to use.

They will always hate us. They will always try to kill us. These things will never change.

Some will: that is true, and those do need to visit Allah or be surpressed by their own, (probably by visiting Allah). After all Muslims have always killed more Muslims then non-Muslims, as I'm sure you know. If we showed 'em some real steel they have been known to respect us. Remember Libya: Rubber?

We can all sit around sippin' latte's till they blow us up or we can do what needs to be done. One way or another it's going to come to that.

We will not proactively nuke them Rubber without a big hit or multiple hits on our side, that sufficiently scares us about our own existence as durring WW2, into waking up and seriously dealing with this threat: you surely must know that. The suicidal Libs are far too powerfull, (and we are presently allowin' 'em to help our enemies n' pursue domestic political gains), and no Cornservative (even one that King Skinny pre-approved, [who could never win an election]), would want to open Pandora's box before our enemies hand them a big reason to ignore the Libs and fire things up. Not a very fun scenerio eh, bud? Respectfully JR

 

[LubeDude]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

History has proven that the Radical Muslims have only stopped there killing when there loss's have become too great. We cannot even concider letting them gain Nuclear capability because they will use it.

Stop them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

What a hack writer......
His obvious political party leaning erases any of the points he tries to make......
Uncle Ronnie could have done more than ship WMD to Saddy & could have nipped The Iranian situation in the bud 25 years ago & did not....
Instead they chose to trade with Iran & hence the scandal.....
It grows tiresome when political hack writers blame every last ill of the country on the Dems....

Hmmm, other then Carter, (who I admit: was a Dem) where did ya get that?

The Rehubs. have just a s bad a track record.....

Hey Bro, where did ya get the partisn' stuff? Other then layin' the blame on Jimmy Carter fer losing Iran, (which ya never seemed to dispute [at least that I can remember] prior to this), and most conventional historians also do blame ol' Jimmy.

I just saw this as an interesting demographic based explanation of Turkey's surprizing refusal to help us for the first time since WW2.

Reagan had a much bigger fish to fry known as the USSR. Remember the insignificant lil' threat to our existance in the early 1980s after Carter aranged the loss of one of our most important Mid East allies Bro?

I just thought this was an interesting take on geo politics, not a partisn bash. Musta not read what you did. Limitations of one functioning brain cell I guess. JR

 

[bekosh]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

History has proven that the Radical Muslims have only stopped there killing when there loss's have become too great. We cannot even concider letting them gain Nuclear capability because they will use it.

Stop them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But because we are civilized human beings, we have to wait for the barbarians to step beyond the pale before we can justify to ourselves taking that final action. That is the price of civilization.

The only question is, how many have to die before we can finaly justify exterminating the cancer?

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

But because we are civilized human beings, we have to wait for the barbarians to step beyond the pale before we can justify to ourselves taking that final action. That is the price of civilization.

The only question is, how many have to die before we can finaly justify exterminating the cancer?

My feelings exactly Bekosh!!

 

[cheburashka]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

But because we are civilized human beings, we have to wait for the barbarians to step beyond the pale before we can justify to ourselves taking that final action. That is the price of civilization.

The only question is, how many have to die before we can finaly justify exterminating the cancer?

Right. Like when we waited for Iraq to "step beyond the pale" by. . .uh. . .what was it they did again? They didn't have Al Quaeda operatives, they weren't responsible for the WTC bombing, they didn't have WMDs. . . Oh that's right. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is that what makes us civilized?

If we could:

a) get involved in wars for justifiable reasons, instead of just because somebody has a piece of land we think we can yank out from under them easily,

b) finish wars that we start before getting involved in new ones,

c) fight a war like a war, not like a chance for a bunch of buddies of the president to loot the coffers of the US while putting actual members of the armed forces at physical risk,

d) be a little more consistent in the principles we pretend to uphold when we attack countries, e.g. not going into a country because of its leader's human rights violations and then committing even more human rights violations once we get there,

then perhaps people wouldn't be so happy to see us pushed out of power. Carter's policies weren't the problem. Bush's policies are the problem.

As to how many have to die before we're able to exterminate the cancer, let's look at Iraq as an example. If that's cancer, we're trying to fight it by dropping carcinogens on it. We're running a freaking terrorist factory over there. We haven't stopped the tide of extremism at all. We've simply increased it.

And all this talk of nuking is silly. Muslim extremists are spread out around the world. How many places would you have to take out, and at what cost to their neighbors? People keep saying "we've got to do something about it" but nuking just isn't it.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Right. Like when we waited for Iraq to "step beyond the pale" by. . .uh. . .what was it they did again?

Hmmm, guess ya missed the invasion of Kuwait, n' ya musta been sleepin' when we thumped ol' Sadam n' he surrendered, eh? Shootin' at our planes daily that were allowed under the terms of Sadam's surrender happened while ya grabbed another nap, I trust?

They didn't have Al Quaeda operatives, they weren't responsible for the WTC bombing,

The bombing in 1993? You do take lot's of naps don't ya? Iraq was all over that one look at the Court record. N' ya musta missed a nice lil' feller by the name of Zarqawi I guess, another nap?

they didn't have WMDs. . . Oh that's right. They happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is that what makes us civilized?

A Cornstatution amoung other things.

If we could:

a) get involved in wars for justifiable reasons, instead of just because somebody has a piece of land we think we can yank out from under them easily,

Oh? What land did we take? I guess I was nappin' on that one.

b) finish wars that we start before getting involved in new ones,

Hmmmmmm, so if we are in the Balkins chasin' buterflies n' all that means anyone can come here and knock our buildings down, killin' our innocent citizens n' we just turn the other cheek or somethin' like that? 'till we catch all those pesky butterflies I guess, hmmmmmmmmmm?

c) fight a war like a war, not like a chance for a bunch of buddies of the president to loot the coffers of the US while putting actual members of the armed forces at physical risk,

Hmmmmm, who's the buds that loot the coffers? Ya jus' makin' this up as ya go?

d) be a little more consistent in the principles we pretend to uphold when we attack countries, e.g. not going into a country because of its leader's human rights violations and then committing even more human rights violations once we get there,

I guess ya listen ta good ol' **** Durbin n' ol' John F Kerry eh? Ya think our troops are worse then Hitler's SS was??? I guess ya woke up from a nap and found we were using electric drills or shredders on innocent people eh? Have some more Kool aid, it's on the house!!

then perhaps people wouldn't be so happy to see us pushed out of power. Carter's policies weren't the problem. Bush's policies are the problem.

Yah, the good ol' days under Jimmy Carter. Those were the days weren't they?? Ya keep yer temps at 68 degrees n' drive a YUGO?

As to how many have to die before we're able to exterminate the cancer, let's look at Iraq as an example. If that's cancer, we're trying to fight it by dropping carcinogens on it. We're running a freaking terrorist factory over there. We haven't stopped the tide of extremism at all. We've simply increased it.

Hmmmmmm, I guess in yer world nasty enemies jus give up at the sight of yer Kool aid? They do wanna kill ya unless ya pray to Mecca five time a day. I guess they would still wanna kill ya even if ya did that. Darn!!

And all this talk of nuking is silly. Muslim extremists are spread out around the world. How many places would you have to take out, and at what cost to their neighbors? People keep saying "we've got to do something about it" but nuking just isn't it.

Do you own a white flag factory somewhere?

 

[cheburashka]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Do you own a white flag factory somewhere?

Nope. Do you own a copy of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution? I mean aside for use as toilet paper, which is all that Bush seems to think it's good for?

People like you are why the terrorists attacked us. Far from saying "Hey, you knocked down some buildings, but you haven't damaged my country at all" you're willing to throw away time-honored American freedoms and values because a group of militants took action against us. And all your clever repartee about naps aside, yes I would rather be keeping my thermostat low and driving an economy car than watching my country act recklessly and without conscience. We invaded Iraq for strategic reasons, under several excuses all of which were proved false. Now you're bringing up the '93 WTC bombing? If that was the reason, why didn't Bush say so? We did so before we had settled business in Afghanistan. We screwed up royally as far as the average citizen is concerned, and extremely well as far as the average military contractor is concerned.

One final point--Muslims don't hate us. Islamist extremists hate us. However, bombing the hell out of Iraq does a fine job of making your average everyday Muslim into a bloodthirsty extremist.

Kind of like how knocking down two buildings in New York has made a lot of Americans into feeble-minded jingoistic neo-fascists.

 

[bekosh]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Kind of like how knocking down two buildings in New York has made a lot of Americans into feeble-minded jingoistic neo-fascists.

Just for your info. If you have to resort to calling people fascists, you should reconsider your position on the issue. As arguments go, you can't get any weaker and it really makes you sound like a feeble-minded dumb ***.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Let me know when you're ready to nuke it.

Nuke the Saracens!........
Murky, all the blther about moral decay, & such....
Whining about Carter....
Ronnie Ray-Gun was busy with USSR?.....
Please, they couldn't even finish off Afghanistan....
We should have aided Saddy any way we could....
He would have killed off millions of Iranians.....
Instead he aided them with the Contra Carp & Dummy senior aided them with pardons.........
Ronnie screwing up the Iran-Iraq war led directly to the Kuwaiti invasion & the Gulf war I........
So what would you have in Turkey a what was it a 'unrooted, secular morally decaying Democracy or a "rooted" theocratic dictatorship?HMMMMM?

 

[cheburashka]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Just for your info. If you have to resort to calling people fascists, you should reconsider your position on the issue. As arguments go, you can't get any weaker and it really makes you sound like a feeble-minded dumb ***.

This feeble-minded dumb*** sincerely believes that we are closer to a neo-fascist movement in the US than we have been since the McCarthy era. What are the features of a fascist state? According to Wikipedia, it's:

"[N]ationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism."

If you don't see these features emphasized in the Neo-Conservative movement in a way that is truly frightening, you need to take another look. We're being told that the needs of the State outrank the needs of the individual. At the same time, individuals with money are being given tax breaks and other forms of preferential treatment. I know the term fascist is overused, but I used it with full understanding of what it means. I wasn't resorting to name-calling. I was pointing out a trend in our current government.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

cheburashka:

I will not resort to name calling, but people like you with the complete nonsence that you beleive are utter failures of this wonderful country.

That's why I continually say that Liberalism is a mental disorder. I feel sorry for you having this disorder as you just can't help yourselves.!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

Nope. Do you own a copy of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?

Why yes , I do!

I mean aside for use as toilet paper, which is all that Bush seems to think it's good for?

I already got that point. You do not like our President.

People like you are why the terrorists attacked us.

Oh? My o' my, it's all my fault then!! I thought it was Mr. Bush's fault. That really clears the matter up: thank you!!! (I wish I had a clown ta post here).

Far from saying "Hey, you knocked down some buildings, but you haven't damaged my country at all" you're willing to throw away time-honored American freedoms and values because a group of militants took action against us. And all your clever repartee about naps aside, yes I would rather be keeping my thermostat low and driving an economy car than watching my country act recklessly and without conscience.

I hope you practice what ya preach. Just don't force me to do what you want to force down others' throats. Hope yer Yugo still runs good, n' ya wash yer sweater often.

We invaded Iraq for strategic reasons, under several excuses all of which were proved false. Now you're bringing up the '93 WTC bombing? If that was the reason, why didn't Bush say so? We did so before we had settled business in Afghanistan. We screwed up royally as far as the average citizen is concerned, and extremely well as far as the average military contractor is concerned.

Hmmmmmm, I see the world different then you, so I guess we shall agree to disagree. If ya could have pushed a 'magic button' on 9/12/2001 and eliminated all living things in Afganistan the world would still face Islamo facism just as much as it does now, and if we went to sleep, (like you seem to do) it would have been much worse. The 'snarky. smug' world view you have is typical of the Liberal kool aid, hope ya like the taste. The Islamo facists would have never attacked if ol' Murky did not exist, n' we should throw all our resources into one of the most worthless places on earth. Kinda makes ya wanna go Hmmmmmm: is Liberalism a mental disorder????

One final point--Muslims don't hate us. Islamist extremists hate us.

Hmmmmmmmm, is an Islamist a Muslim? Is Liberalism a mental disorder?

However, bombing the hell out of Iraq does a fine job of making your average everyday Muslim into a bloodthirsty extremist.

I thought ya said Murky caused all these problems? Ya tryin' ta trick ol' Murky 'cause ya heard he only had one highly stressed, (highly stressed because Murky tries to understand folks like you) functional brain cell?

Kind of like how knocking down two buildings in New York has made a lot of Americans into feeble-minded jingoistic neo-fascists.

Thought ya said I caused that. Is Liberalism a mental disorder? Ya don't own a white flag company, so maybe yer a Democrat politician who wants to profit from America's defeat then? Hmmmmmmmmm, Rolmops, PW2 got some smoke fer Murky? I'm cornfusted!!!

 

[12Footer]

Re: "Middle East Nightmare"

What are the features of a fascist state? According to Wikipedia, it's:
"[N]ationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism."

Cheb, I have no problem with Wickkapedia, nor do I mean to discredit it. But I just need to discredit your pasing here. Liberals just love to equate conservatism with fascism.. It's is in your playbook, and often used.....
But it is bogus, as much of the playbook is. Founded-upon socialist talking points, it often uses myths like "man-made global warming" to push agendas such as anti-capitalist market incentives (citing envirnonmental concerns such as "greehouse gasses" for one example).

Just as their use of EMBRYONIC stem cell reasearch legislation to forward their desires for legalising abortion.
I do not blame you guys for trying, but another example of liberals' prejudice is that all neocons are knuckle-draggin apemen with green teeth, who don't have the brains to see past your media blitzes or hollow-wood movie scripts..
And tho it may have some converts, and short-term success, some of us who are of "THE WHO" generation wont be fooled again. So in the interest of setting you straight, I must now restore fascism's ACTUAL definition to this thread.
From Webster's dictionary:

Main Entry:fascism
Pronunciation:*fa-*shi-z*m also *fa-*si-
Function:noun
Etymology:Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date:1921

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control *early instances of army fascism and brutality J. W. Aldridge*
–fascist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
–fascistic \fa-*shis-tik also -*sis-\ adjective , often capitalized
–fascistically \-ti-k(*-)l*\ adverb , often capitalized

If you don't see these features emphasized in the Neo-Conservative movement in a way that is truly frightening, you need to take another look. We're being told that the needs of the State outrank the needs of the individual. At the same time, individuals with money are being given tax breaks and other forms of preferential treatment. I know the term fascist is overused, but I used it with full understanding of what it means. I wasn't resorting to name-calling. I was pointing out a trend in our current government.

I DO see some of that (case-in-piont, Bush's lack of border control, or illegal immigrant legislation)... But I see FAR MORE of such behavior commiing from the left. And historically, that has been the case.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" (Spock + Karl Marx) , but not in so many words

You guys often slip-up and show your true agenda while trying sell snake oil as this video clearly illustrates. You cannot parse this when it comes from the lips of your OWN champions.