removing the bearing from LU

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
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63
Can I get some help on removing the upper bearing in the LU. It is the one under the top plate. I removed the retainer plate, so I thought the bearing would pull right out. Any help? Thank You.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: removing the bearing from LU

One piece lower unit? You must remove the pinion and the shaft. The bearing is pressed onto the shaft and held in place by a machined land on the shaft. Race is pressed into case with one or more shims under it. You must use a three jaw puller to remove it. The crush ring just serves to keep the race from rising in the case when everything is assembled.

Two piece lower unit early Chrysler? The bearing is located on the shaft with a circlip. You need the special pliers to remove it. Again, you must remove the pinion and shaft, however, the seal is also pressed into the gearcase and must be removed first.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
Messages
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Re: removing the bearing from LU

Thank You. I'm in the middle of pulling the prop shaft out now so I can pull the drive shaft. It is a real pain, every piece needs a special tool.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: removing the bearing from LU

Not necessarily! Use a 9/16 socket with a breaker bar on the pinion nut. Wedge something behind the socket so it does not slip off and pad the gearcase with rags or cardboard where the breaker bar touches it so you don't bend it out of round. Now, take Vise-grip pliers and loose fit them to the shaft splines with some plastic or whatever to cushion it.. Wiggle it a bit to set it into the splines and clamp it firmly but not so firm that it dicks up the splines. Now whack it with a rubber mallet to break loose the pinion nut. It is on there rather tightly.

Better alternative: If you have access to a junk crank, put it on the splines and wedge a really big wrench between the crank cheeks and crank pin. use it to break free the nut. The only other tool you need is an impact slide hammer with a small 3 jaw puller to pull the forward gear bearing race out of the case-- if it needs to come out. Standard screwdrivers and wrenches will do for the rest.

Use some 1/4 all thread, nuts and washers, and some 1/4 x 2 inch steel plate to fabricate a puller for the prop shaft spool.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
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63
Re: removing the bearing from LU

So I got the pinion nut off. But the pinion gear seams to be pressed on the drive shaft pretty good. There isn't anywhere really to hook a puller on the shaft to pull it off the pinion gear. Any tricks for that.
 

Frank Acampora

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Messages
12,004
Re: removing the bearing from LU

Its not pressed on, it is on a locking taper very much like the flywheel but easier to get off. If your drive shaft is necked down, go to the trusty Vise-grip pliers and cushion it with plastic. Clamp loosely and let it ride up the necked portion to the wide part of the shaft. Then either hammer it or put the whole shaft into a vise with the pliers on top and the vise set just wide enough to clear the shaft. Lift up the whole lower unit and snap down as if it were a slide hammer. If you have the straight shaft, you can't just clamp on the vise-grip because it will slide up the shaft. Instead, drill a piece of steel plate with a hole just a little larger than the shaft. leave the edges sharp. Slide it on the shaft and **** it. Hold it that way with a pliers so you don't catch your fingers. Do the same vise trick. The steel plate will grip the shaft and leave two little grooves that will be easy to file off so the water pump impeller and seal will slide over them without getting damaged. I have an all purpose slide hammer and I made my plate with an extra hole on the side, that the snout of the hammer fits into.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
Messages
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Re: removing the bearing from LU

I got the shaft out, and the bearing seams to be in good shape. It has a little wobble around the shaft, but when I lower the bearing cup all the way down on it there is no wobble. So I was thinking maybe the cup just wasn't all the way down. There were a couple of thin rings placed below the cup. I'm assuming those were suppose to be there, but I was wondering if the thickness of those were keeping the cup from going all the way down. I need to get something that works well to press that cup down tight. But before all that I need to figure out how I am going to get all the needle bearings that fell out at the lower part of the drive shaft, back in. There looks like a ring at the bottom that if it comes off I can slide the bearings in with the shaft in place. So what I need to know is does that ring come out and what is the best way to remove it. And do I need those thin spacers under the bearing cup if they don't allow it to go down far enough.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: removing the bearing from LU

Those "spacers" are shims. They are CRITICAL. Do not lose them. They set the lash or mating of the gears. Without them, the gears will grind themselves to death in just a short time--anywhere from a few minutes to several hours depending on the mismatch. These shims are custom measured for each lower unit and may be the same or different in different units. Above the bearing race is a crush ring. It is thin stamped metal, silver in color. When you tighten the plate, it is squeezed between the plate and bearing race and holds it down.

Now, the needles: Every lower unit I have seen up to 1989 has a complete needle bearing in the case just above the pinion. the needles do not fall out unless they are worn. Make yourself a tool with all thread and pull out the old case. Press in the new one. If your lower unit is 1990 or newer, it may be different and may indeed have loose needles. If it does, hold them in place with heavy grease while assembling the lower unit again.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
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Re: removing the bearing from LU

Yes mine is a 91 and there is no case, they are loose. The grease won't mess with the gear oil? I was going to create a plastic insert that would hold them in but be flexible enough to bend back and insert a bearing one at a time. and would slide out when I slid the shaft in. but grease would work, but didn't know if would mess with anything.
 

joshdashnaw

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Re: removing the bearing from LU

The shims are on the lip that the cup sets on. The lip that the bearing sits on has no shims. It seems like there should be some though. I did some measuring, and there is no way that the cup is going to sit all the way down on the bearing., even if I did remove the shims from under the cup. When I have the shaft out and place the cup over the bearing it sits nicely and holds the bearing steady from wobbling. So I have no idea what to do. Either there needs to be shims under the bearing to raise it up, or maybe it isn't the right bearing. It does seem to have been apart before. Frank, I'm not sure about the crush ring. There is the bearing pressed on the shaft, and the cup that slides down on it, and the retainer plate that holds that down. Only thin silver rings are the ones resting on the lip of the housing that the cup rests on.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
Messages
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Re: removing the bearing from LU

So it has occured to me that I never really went over why I have been taking all this apart to get to the bearing. When I was replacing the water pump I noticed there was a lot play in the shaft. the play is up and down, and side to side. There was enough play that the offset of the impeller was pulling the shaft so that I was hitting the housing of the water pump. So I was told there should be little to no play there. But after all this there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. Frank, you have been a lot of, but I'm not sure what to do here.
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
Messages
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Re: removing the bearing from LU

Ok. so I was playing with it some more and realized that when the pinion gear is on then the bearing doesn't sit all the way down on the lip. the pinion is pushing it up into the cup and looks like now maybe it is high enough for the cup to sit down on it. So maybe my initial assumption that it wasn't all the way down in the first place is right. One quick question about the shims though. There are two shims both of which have a thinner shim attached to it. Do you think both are suppose to be on there. Maybe someone put a new one on and forgot to take the old one off. Can I try to see if the cup goes all the way down, and if it doesn't take one out, or is that to risky. Is there any way to find out how many shims there are suppose to be?
 

joshdashnaw

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May 5, 2007
Messages
63
Re: removing the bearing from LU

I reassembled the lower bearings and have been trying different things. The cup still doesn't go all the way down. If I take one of the shims out it gets a lot closer. The shaft barely wiggles. If I took the last one out it would probably be about perfect. The shaft is centered with the housing of the LU. but when I slid the water pump on to see if it rubs, the shaft is still really close to the pump housing off centered. With one of the shims out it doesn't wiggle enough now though to actually hit it. Maybe that is just the way it's suppose to be. My initial thought was that the upper drive shaft would hold the lower part steady when the lower unit is attached. The marine doctor said that wasn't right and I should check it out. The only way I see to get rid of all the wobble though is to take out both shims. But by doing that there will be no up and down play either and I'm not sure if that is suppose to be there so that the pinion can move up and down. I am going to mess around with it some more.
 

Frank Acampora

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Messages
12,004
Re: removing the bearing from LU

Josh: I have never worked on a 91 lower unit and therefore don't know exactly what you have. Some of the things you write confuse me. That said, I will give you some generalities and you can interpolate them to your lower unit. OK?

Now! Typically, the lower unit gears have teeth curved in a way that pulls the pinion down when the engine is running. That is why there is a tapered roller bearing (cone) at the top of the case with the small end facing down. Thus, the cup or race has its large end facing up to mate with the rollers.There is typically some vertical play in the shaft, and if you pull up on it, there will be some side play between the bearing and cone. This is not there when the engine is running. There is usually a special steel ring on the bearing and a crush ring presses this down onto the cup, and holds everything together when the top plate is installed. Thus: you cannot pull up on the shaft when the lower unit is completely assembled. If this crush ring is missing, the engine will still run fine because the gears are pulling together but you will be able to pull up on the shaft. The factory did not spend money to put in the crush ring for no reason! Even though the engine will run without it, it is a necessary part.

Typically, the cup has shims underneath it because the pinion hole has some tolerance and the shaft length has tolerance and the shaft taper has tolerance. When you add these tolerances up, the installed length of the pinion is different in different gearcases. SO: you must adjust how far the cup of the top bearing lets the shaft go downward by shimming it up in the case.

Now: If you look at the gears themselves, you will see a "wear" pattern on the teeth. It is not really wear but a mark where the teeth have been meshing. There is a special tool to set gear lash, but if you check carefully, you should be able to see if the running pattern is at the proper mesh point.

If you still have the gears out, mesh the pinion and forward gear by hand. You will feel that at various depths of engagement, the gears do not mesh smoothly. There is however, one "sweet spot" where they mesh slicker than snot. This is where the factory shims the pinion to run and it has a tolerance of about 5 thousandths of an inch. Anywhere else, and the gears will chew up the teeth under load.

Now: When you find this sweet spot, look at where the teeth are meshing and how far the pinion is from the center of the forward gear. Once you put them in the case with the original shims, see if the mesh looks proper. Next, with no water pump installed but the reverse gear and spool installed, turn the drive shaft by hand while pushing down. It should turn smoothly with no noise. Turn it in the opposite direction from engine rotation and you will hear a "rattling or grumbling". This is because the teeth on the gears are now pushing the pinion up and it is no longer mating with the forward gear properly. Indeed, after you assemble everything, if you spin the prop by hand while the lower unit is in forward gear, you will hear the same noise since you are loading the gears in the reverse direction as they are designed to run. When the engine is running, this can never happen because it is set to run in one direction only.

This is why you cannot run one outboard in counter rotating direction in a twin engine installation. You must have a counter-rotating engine block with the lower unit gears cut opposite so they are loaded properly.

Hope this somehow clears things up and helps you. Frank.
 

joshdashnaw

Seaman
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May 5, 2007
Messages
63
Re: removing the bearing from LU

Thanks Frank. I put it back together the way it was, with the same shims. The pinion in my boat rests on top of the gear and is pushed up. So the bearing is being pushed into the cup. So it turns out that there probabaly wasn't anything wrong with it anyway, but it was a good learning experience, and now i know.
 
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