please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

[rjc2rjc]

OK my father in law has the before mentioned motor. said the last time he had it running he tried to start it and he heard a loud bang and then it wouldn't start. so he took it to a guy that works on boats and the guy said it needed a new power head. now this didn't sound wright to me. new power head over just a loud bang and some racket. so i took it apart and started looking at things. took the head off the motor. pistons and casings and valves (after some cleaning) looked great. then i took the thing off top the flywheel the pull cord housing. (I'm sure that's not the technical term). i did this after i noticed the fly wheel spinning rather freely. that's when i noticed the there was NO nut on top the fly wheel NONE. i can only imagine that the noise he heard was the nut bouncing around in there. OK now you know the problem, now for the question's.
what size nut should be on there?
Is it a standard nut or a special one.
i noticed in the flywheel there was a spot for a key pin ( i think that's what they call them) but in the bolt there is not. does the bolt fall when the nut comes off hiding the spot in the bolt for the key pin. or is the spot for the key pin in the flywheel just so they could use the flywheel on other motors.
what other kind of damage could this have caused if any don't see anything major that jumps out at me as far as damage from the bolt coming off.

thank you in advance for any help.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

That loud noise was the engine backfiring. The woodruff key aligns the flywheel with the crankshaft and that sets the timing.

The key must be the proper key for the engine so purchase one from your local dealership. DO NOT attempt to install one that you picked up at a hardware store.

The key must be installed so that the outer straight edge is perfectly straight up and down, that is vertical with the engine.... NOT aligned with the crankshaft taper.

It's impossible for that nut to come loose by itself. Check to see if someone had removed it to take the flywheel off for some reason, and if so, where did they put it. Check the area around the powerhead, around the pan that the hood sets on.... it may be laying there.

If the nuit can't be found, you'll need to purchase one from your local dealership.

Now, I suspect that the flywheel and the crankshaft tapers are somewhat roughed up. Those tapers must be cleaned up, otherwise the flywheel nut, even if torqued properly will shear that new flywheel key which will knock the engine out of time again..... and you'll need to start all over again.

If nobody jumps in here and relays the factor specifications of the flywheel nut torque to you, be sure to obtain the flywheel nut torque for your local dealership. If the nut is not tight enough, it will come loose.... too tight may result in flywheel and crankshaft damage.

That thing on top of the flywheel is called the manual starter.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

The torque spec. for an RDE-19 is 60-65 ft/lbs.

The nut that you buy at the hardware store, should be hardened, or grade 8.

If the flywheel's not loose, you may need a puller to get it off. A harmonic balancer puller is what you need, available nearly anywhere that sells tools. Get 3 grade 8 bolts to go through the puller into the 3 holes in the flywheel. Nothing less than grade 8.

While you have the flywheel off, check those coils. If they've not ever been changed, it needs to happen. Those are notiorius for cracking and causing problems, and they're fairly cheap. Also check and set the points. The point gap should be .020.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

here is a pic of proper flywheel removal. and a pic of whats under the flywheel, there is a slot for the woodruff key in the shaft, that lines up with the slot in the flywheel. if you coils look anything like these they need to be replaced. this is my 57 RDE-19.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

thanks for the replies guys. if i can get him to leave the thing alone and let me work on it i think i can get it fixed. getting him to leave it alone is the problem.
but i have a couple more questions if i may.

tashasdaddy the pics you show in your post. you said that is the same year motor. but may be its just taken apart but when i look at his engine and the the small pick on the right it looks like its missing something. the engine I'm working on has a. I'm going to say a alternator or generator on it. in your pic all i see is the starter. on his there is a small belt that sits on top of the fly wheel and goes to the left of the motor.(that's left if your standing behind the boat looking at the motor) to the alt or gen or what ever the thing is.

and on your pic to the left i see what looks like a spot in that bolt for a key but our engine does not have that. do you know of anywhere i can find an exploded view of the parts and assembly of this motor.

 

[F_R]

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

In 1957, a DC generator kit was offered as an accessory. That's what you have. Since it is an accessory, it is not found on most motors.

The picture on the left is intended to show the use of a flywheel puller. That's actually about a 4hp motor it's on.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

ohh ya anyone know the fuel/oil mix for this motor. thank you all for your replies

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Maybe this will help:

35hp 1957 magneto

35hp 1957 crank&pistons

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

great stuff BoatBouy. i want copies. in the crank and pistons, # 6 is the woodruff key that fits in the slot on the crank, and into the flywheel. this keeps it motor in time. here's and pic out of the manual.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f119/tashasdaddy/35hpflywheel.jpg

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

guys that was great cleared up a lot of questions in my head. Boat Buoy that fist pic you have of the magneto. the pic on the left that is what just spins the bolt and screw.(number 1 and number 2) that is what is missing and when the starter engages number 8 the teeth. the hole thing spins except for the shaft. and i don't see a key pin in that pic so the nut must hold that down enough to get the shaft spinning to start the motor or am i wrong.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

That #1 is one of three bolts that hold the ratchet to the flywheel. It is only used with a manual recoil starter - not needed with electric start. If number 8 is spinning by itself, that's bolted to the flywheel which means the flywheel is spinning by itself and is not installed correctly. It's either missing the woodruff key(#6 in the second pic), not torqued, or both.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

ok i see number 2 is all that's missing then and sense it is missing i would say the woodruff key is probably sheared and there is no way in heck that it is torqued right

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

hey Boat Buoy does that dandy little book you have there say what the oil/ gas mix is??? thanks for your help and if you don't mind after i get to looking at all this i will probably have a few more questions.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

the motor is a 24:1 fuelil, twc3 outboard motor oil, use 87 octane gas.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

From the Evinrude BRP website:

"Q - What is the fuel/oil mix for my motor?

A - The following is generally true: 1958 and prior used 20:1, 1959 thru 1963 used 24:1, 1964 and newer use 50:1. High performance usage (racing) requires a ratio of 25:1. New engine break-in (not DI) requires 25:1."

If the oil doesn't have TC-W3? on it, I wouldn't use it. With that being said, years ago I used plain 30W bulk oil, but I wouldn't today.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Re: please help (1957 johnson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

ok guys just an update for you. we figured out it is a 9/16th 20 threads per inch. and we tried several woodford keys we got from a tractor supply store and they were all no go's. so I'm guessing it is a special size key that fits in it. so he is going to go to a parts dealer and see if he can get it. but i will probably beat him to it.lol
he had the flywheel off before i got there he took it off without a puller it was that loose. the key was sheared into 2 parts so there was no way to match it to any of the ones we tried.
we reset the points there were way off. but they look as if they were brand new. that was a plus.
and this may sound stupid to some but I'm trying to figure out how one would set the timing on this motor. i know how to set it on a car. on a out board it seams to me if you get the woodford key in the flywheel and shaft right. and points set to the gap. then timing should be right. am i right
thanks again guys


ohh yea found out he had been mixing the oil and gas 50:1

 

[HighTrim]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Im pretty sure that you should be mixing 24:1 on that motor, but someone may correct me, here is a little additional help:

Spark plugs: Champion J4C (were J4J's, now discontinued) gapped at .030"Fuel/oil mixture: 24:1 87 octane gas to TCW-3 rated outboard oil.WOT RPMS: 4500Backfiring through the exhaust is symptomatic of bad timing. Make sure the armature plate underneath the flywheel is free to swivel with the throttle, but is not loose and shaking. Failing that, pull the flywheel and adjust the points to open .020" max.To remove the flywheel, you must use a puller that acts on the three bolt holes near the hub of the flywheel. A beefy automotive harmonic balancer puller equipped with 1/4"-20TPI Grade 8 bolts about 3" long will work. When the flywheel is reinstalled, the flywheel nut must be torqued to exactly 105 ft/lbs, or the flywheel key will shear.If it's backfiring through the carburetor, that is an indication of lean running. Diagnose the fuel system - and rebuild the carb.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

It's not TCW-3, it's TC-W3?. If it only says TCW-3, put it back on the shelf. Additionally, don't torque that flywheel to 105 lbs. You may pull the threads off of it. Torque for a '57 flywheel is 60-65 lbs.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

My first reply which was the first reply to your post stated:

The key must be the proper key for the engine so purchase one from your local dealership. DO NOT attempt to install one that you picked up at a hardware store.

The key must be installed so that the outer straight edge is perfectly straight up and down, that is vertical with the engine.... NOT aligned with the crankshaft taper.

I think I'm going to take break for a couple weeks and go talk to the wall for awhile.

 

[rjc2rjc]

Re: please help (1957 jhonson seahorse 35 HP rde-19

Joe i have read so many posts since i joined this i forgot you said that. so please don't go all skitzo and talking to inanimate objects. you may hurt you credablity. people might start thinking about witch nursing home to put you. and we wouldn't want that. so sit back take a breath and please forgive me for my over site.