What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

[Chris1956]

I had a discussion with my local Merc dealer last week. I asked him his opinion on the future technology of the outboard. He surprised me by saying merc is going to all 4 cycle motors and will phase out the Optimax line, as well as the carbed 2 cycle motors.

Do you folks agree? What do you think is the future for Yamaha, BRP etc.?

BTW - Another surprise he provided was that although the Optimax motors burned less fuel than carbed 2 cycle motors, they used about the same amount of oil. No tremendous reduction. Now the E-TEC motors can run with the oil line cut for 5 hours, or so says the infomercial......

 

[JB]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

The short term future of outboards is advanced DFI 2 stroke and EFI 4 stroke, in my opinion. The long term will probably include forced induction, stratified charge, DFI 4 strokes, including small turbodiesels.

There is room for other engine schemes. On the water is an excellent environment for low output Stirling engines taking full advantage of the usual difference between air and water temps.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

I think by Merc going down the path of only producing 4 strokes, it opens up the whole market for E-tec. It will create a situation that will be very different than there has ever been in the outboard market.

The market and people's minds have always been brand loyal, Merc or OMC. There are many other choices now besides these two obviously, and there have been for a while, but until now you could get anything you wanted from any brand you wanted, but it seems to me that for the most part from what I see on the water, if people are buying a Yamaha or Suzuki these days, they are buying a 4 stroke. If they want a 2 stroke, they are gonna go to a Merc or an Evinrude, whoever they are loyal to.

So by Merc cutting out their Optimax and carbed line, they are going to lose a lot of their previously loyal 2 stroke market. That being said, I assume that Yamaha and Suzuki are going to go the same way eventually, (even though their EFI and DI 2 strokes are great motors), and I think maybe Honda already has.

So therefore, it seems to me that anybody and everybody who wants a 2 stroke will have to buy an E-tec, and I'm sure anybody who does will be very happy. But at the same time Evinrude will lose out on the market share that wants a 4 stroke. But at least they will be the only game in town for a 2 stroke, Merc will have to compete with a lot of other companies for 4 stroke superiority.

I am biased, I would never buy a Merc, and I'm not sure I would buy a 4 stroke outboard, but if I did, I am prety sure I'd look at a Yami or Suzi right off.

So I guess my point is that by Merc going that way, plan on seeing a lot more E-tec's around.

As for the future, who knows what you'll see next, I'm sure it will be cool though.

I would like to see Diesel outboards come around, I have seen a couple of older ones from a while ago and always thought it was a cool idea, and if they can run clean now, it sounds like they would be great engines.

I always wondered why we never saw any rotary (Wenkel) outboards....you could spin those things to 12,000 RPM and they would keep ripping across the water. I think their biggest problem in cars was fuel economy, but when it comes to boats, I think they'd start out ahead of the game there.

But I would be very surprised to ever see a 2 stoke (gas) outboard go away, they are too good at what they do.

Just my thoughts. Good question though.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

No one knows the future as regulatory changes and technological advancements are subject to change and jumps. I also wouldn't confuse Mercury not building a DFI as the same same thing as them not selling a DFI

 

[dingbat]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

So by Merc cutting out their Optimax and carbed line, they are going to lose a lot of their previously loyal 2 stroke market. That being said, I assume that Yamaha and Suzuki are going to go the same way eventually, (even though their EFI and DI 2 strokes are great motors), and I think maybe Honda already has.

Since when did Merc stop making Optis?

 

[JB]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

OMC built some prototype Wankel rotary outboards back in the early 70s. They were small, light and incredibly noisy. I had a demo ride with a 35hp rotary developed from snomobile engines. The racket was unbearable and hole shot bit the big one; accellerated like a 10HP.

Don't be surprised to see a quieted down version on the market someday.

 

[Bass Man Bruce]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

I recently read where a guy has invented a six stroke engine he says boosts power 10 - 20%, and is currently waiting for his patents. It's a four stroke and after the exhaust cycle water is injected into the cylinder which turns to steam and drives the piston around again before fuel is injected. The water is saved and recycled. Now I gotta admit it sounds a little far fetched but ya never know.
And if they ever make outboards with it the debates outa really heat up, plus Bondo will need a new avatar.

 

[ziemann]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

As long the manufacturers still have saved up EPA credits and as long as there is some market demand especially in the international market, there will be a few carb'd 2 stroke outboards for sale. Carb'd 2 strokes are still available in the US from Yamaha, BRP, Merc- you get the idea. In the international market, there is a demand that the industry will continue to cater to. Although the carb'd 2 stroke market is a tiny fraction of what it once was, I believe that there will be 2 very different designs especially in the international market. If low cost drives the international market, look for traditional 2 strokes to continue to survive.

The cost of 4 strokes and DFI 2 strokes will continue to evolve- but I suspect that the cost will too.

New variants of DFI technology will continue to evolve- to a point that the benefits of traditional 4 strokes will become blurred. Look for DFI 2 strokes to continue to become greener and 4 strokes to become lighter. If either technology cannot achieve that goal, they will begin to lose favor with the consumer.

Prices in outboards have gone up and at some point, the prices will reach a limit that the marketplace will have trouble to afford.

Manufacturers will build what the public wants- and the needs of the consumer will also evolve. But some things won't change- the consumer wants a low cost, light, non-poluting, fuel efficient, powerful outboard. And whichever technology best delivers on those priorities, will see favor in the eyes of the consumer.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

There are so few 2stroke manufactures that seriously pursue R&D.
And there are so many 4stroke manufactures that seriously pursue R&D.

The same fuel injection/engine management systems, VTEC that are common today on your boat and car was R&D 5-6 years ago.
Today's R&D is evident on F1 cars where 4strokes are twisting 16-18 THOUSAND RPM and winning races.

 

[Bigjohn1]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

I think your dealer is out to lunch. When has Mercury announced any plans whatsoever to discontinue the Optimax line?

 

[ziemann]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

Elvin-

You actually make some sense here...

So- if I am reading you right, you are implying that Mercury could phase out production of THEIR Opti. Obviously, its no secret that the Optimax is not Mercury's technology. Now, since Mercury and Tohatsu have such a close relationship (in their small outboards) and both use Orbital Injection systems in the Optimax and the TLDI- can we draw a conclusion that Tohatsu/ Nissan will be phasing in some of their TLDI/ Orbital Injection technology to replace the Optimax in 2 stroke outboards?

This would be a huge expansion of the relationship between Mercury and Tohatsu/Nissan.

Assuming of course this is what you are implying....or maybe trolling with....hehe!

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

Merc was planning on dumping OptiMax years ago now. Then they filed that bizarre dumping lawsuit and severed ties with Yamaha necessitating continuing and expanding their Opti line. That forced them to work out the considerable number of bugs in them and I'd be suprised to see them abandon Opti now. But Orbital technology has considerable limitations and they'll also have plenty of 4-strokes in the lineup. BRP has the technology of choice regarding 2-strokes now. Even Ficht was better than Opti. OMC was pursuing Orbital technology too and found the Ficht injectors and dropped Orbital. Then they further improved with the injectors used on E-Tecs. I think the next big leap in outboard technology is going to depend on what happens with technology other than internal combustion of fossil fuels. But that technology will be coming from outside of the marine power industry.

 

[hitace]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

heres your answer right here

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

both are good currently but with the quickly increasing emissions standard I honestly don't think 2 strokes will eventually be able to clean up enough. Etec is damn good emissions wise (better than some efi 4 strokes) but the vast majority of 4 stroke outboards are still running 1980's EFI technology, just a simple open loop setup found on the first EFI cars of the early 80's. Once forced to they can add Oxygen sensors, ERG, Mass air flow sensor ect to clean them up even more, all of which added little to no wieght and could increase fuel economy on the 4 strokes by another 10-20%

 

[Whaler27]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

Mercury recently announced two new models for the Optimax line. The 175 XS and plain 250. Thus, it would seem that the dealer is not in touch with the manufacturer. Of course, the dealer could be biased towards 4-strokes since they represent more after sales service opportunities.

The few carbureted 2-strokes remaining in the Yamaha and Mercury lineups will disappear by the 2009 model year.

 

[05GlastronSX]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

if mercury drops their two-stroke line-up i will no longer support them. I have always been a huge fan of mercury and its great history beginning in Cedarburg Wisconsin, about 20 miles from where i live. i was raised on a 1963 merc 500 and 1972 merc 200 and presently a 1992 40 merc carby and 2005 150 merc carby. I have never had a problem with any of them in all the years i have used them and i will always love the sound of merc v-6 2 strokes. Aside from this, i never have liked the idea of four strokes and i will never buy one as long as 2 strokes are around. Like stated earlier, 2 strokes are too good at what they do. Anyways...i will always take a dealer reps words with a grain of salt. I do not believe that mercury is going to drop its 2 stroke line. They have invested way too much time and money into the optimax line and not only would they lose loyal customers like me, but their racing department would suffer as well with the drop of the "XS" line and other high performance 2 stroke outboards. Just my 2 cents. May 2 strokes live on forever!

 

[hitace]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

Long Live The 2 Stroke. It Would Be A Sad Day In History If Mercury Dropped The 2 Strokes.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: What is the future for Outboard Motors - DI or 4 cycle??

How about using the brain and seeing just how long Nuke Subs have been running...same principle downsized...