Major problem

[reelfishin]

I was wondering if anyone else here lives in a town that has any anti-boat ordinances?
I just recieved a letter from the city here saying that I have 5 days to remove both of my boats and trailers. I have had boats for years, as do all of the neighbors. The letter states that there is a new zoning ordinance that forbids boats or trailers or "stationatory vehicles", meaning any car or truck that does not move daily. I drive my truck daily, and the car on the weekends unless I need to tow the boat. I have both a car and a truck and my father lives with me and has the same. They wrote up both of his cars and one of mine, they also state in the letter that trailers of any type will not be tolerated. If they complain about the boat being registered, I just bought it out of state, they wouldn't register it or give me a title, they told me that it will be in the mail. the other don't need to be registered since it has no motor and is under 12''
I keep my project boats at my shop, I can't put anything else over there, I wouldn't have room to work, and they would get stolen or vandalized outside there.

How can they do this, do they expect someone with a jon boat in their yard to leave it at a marina out in the open? I have always had two vehicles, and there is no such code or ordinance in the original deed for my place, they apparently passed this last month with no one knowing. They are also complaining about vehicles that are not parked on the "approved macadam surface" meaning that my cars are parked half on the driveway and half on the grass on each side. I called and they are serious, only one of the neighbors have gotten any such letter, that house has only two cars and a lawn tractor in the driveway, they wrote up the second car and the tractor.

The way I feel is that it's my property, and I will do as I please with it. I found the cover off of my boat and a neighbor said there was a city vehicle and an employee climbing in my boat. If I had seen it, I wouldn't be here writing this, I'd be in jail. I came home to find the front part of the tarp that covers my boats both off and unsecured. Both bungee cords were in the boat. Both trailers are tagged, I pay my taxes and I paid my registration and insurance, so I don't see what their problem is. There's no way I will get rid of my boats. I don't live in a downtown area, I am miles from the heart of the town. I could see if is was a hazzard or something or if the cars were blocking the road, but they are all on my property. They also refused me a permit to build a two car garage last spring, stating that "my needs did not require such structure". One of those boats and one car would have been in the garage if they let me put one up. the part I don't get on that is that all of these yards and houses are layed out the same, I am the only one that don't have a garage. If it's ok for all the other neighbors to have a garage, why not me. What do they think this is some sort of communist state?
Has anyone else had to deal with this in their town?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Major problem

attorney time, american civil liberties union. they would love this one. i believe it could be struck down as unconstitutional, as there is not grandfather clause, or time period to comply, as next owner.

 

[zell66]

Re: Major problem

I agree I would defiantly challenge this little thing. In my city I have a 30' Travel Trailer, a 19' boat and a suburban that sit next to my garage until I used them.

I would push the4 subject with the city council and get the press involved, the more the public know the more we can fight.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Major problem

Just another example of how if you ever think you "own" anything in this country you are sadly mistaken.

However, this does seem a bit extreme. You can have these ordinances in a new neighborhood but to come in and immediately enforce these changes in existing ones is unusual.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Major problem

Sounds like you need to walk the neighborhood and talk to other folks in the same boat...no pun intended. If they did this to you, they are doing it to others. Someone down at city hall is trying to "upscale your neighborhood", probably so they can justify jacking your property value/appraisal for tax purposes. Get a crowd together and visit the next council/townhall meeting. Stand together and question the ordinance, publicize what you are doing...the media will love it. Get the ordinance repealed or re-worded to what the citizens want, even if it means putting it on the ballot. If you lay down for this what's next? They'll probably dictate grass height, house color and brand of lawn equipment you can use and when you can use it.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: Major problem

In the security complex where I stay I have the same rules, I only have 1 boat at home as all my other boats is at my holiday house .... but I just tow my boat with me to work everyday, I do go ride after work but that is besides the point ........ if they give me $@!T about it I will rev that outboard up in the middle of the night ...... a modified yamaha can make a hell of a noise .....

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Major problem

I own three boats, one for salt water, one for the rivers and larger lakes, and one for freshwater ponds. Along with those I have a Ranger pickup, and an old car. I own two vans but they stay at my shop along with my two project boats.
The letter states that they will not tolerate vehicles for sale, or any painting on the premises. I have never painted a car or boat here and nothing has a for sale sign on it. I have had people stop before trying to buy either the boat or a car and I promptly run them off. I have a table outback that I used to spray bomb a few parts for my trailer. They make it sound like I'm poluting the air for miles. If they push the painting issue, I'll paint my car with a brush and force them to write me up. They won't like the color either, I am sure I can make an eyesore out of it if I wanted to. Right now it's in primer, it's been like that for 10 years or so and has been since I got it. It's got antique tags and don't require inspection. My truck is a '94 and looks new. They made a point in the letter about parking on the lawn? I never park on my lawn but inorder to fit all 4 vehicles in the driveway, they are parked off the pavement on one side, on my grass on my property.

All trailers are registered and tagged, all vehicles that require inspection are current. They never bothered me before, and I have had the same number of both here for at least 25 years. They did come around once and accuse me of doing repairs on cars here. They wrote me a citation for doing the brakes on my car behind the house back in 1984. That didn't hold up and it was dropped. They also have given me a hard time in the past since my former company car had out of state tags, since I worked out of state as well. They tried to tell me that I couldn't park a 'company' or commercial vehicle at my house. That also just faded away after I made a lot of noise.

This time they seem to be going all over town, they wrote up a disabled, 75+ year old man next door for "clutter and misc. debris". He had some cement blocks stacked up behind his garage and a pair of old large concrete flower pots. In order for them to see any of the items they wrote him up for, they had to be prowling around the yards, none of it is visible from the road.

I also have a car trailer, I guess that's illegal too. The yards here are about 90 x 100', the taxes are around $6500 a year, the roads around here are crap, my house is assessed at 67,000. The neighboring houses are similar. There have been a few that sold for way more than they should have, one in total disrepair sold for over $200K and the kid that bought it spent another $100K on it.

This is not society hill and the other end of the street still has a few chicken coops up. These houses are 60+ years old and were built after the war as cheap housing.

If they would allow me to build a garage, half of everything would be inside. My Renken would never fit inside, and I wouldn't waste inside space on my daily drivers.

I don't think that the public would back this up, it's the 'new' public that's been moving in thats doing most of this. They move from the high rent areas to find cheaper living, then they try to make the area change to suit them or to be like the expensive area they moved out of.

What gets me is that if boats are illegal, and there are no places to store them here, why do they still let you register them? Do they really expect me to take my 12' jon boat and trailer and pay to park it at a marina 40 miles away out in the open with no protection or security? It wouldn't last a night like that. Here, it's protected by a dog and me, the dog is the least of anyones worries. The part that really bothers me is that they apparently must have stalked the area to find a time to prowl around, there's no way they got back there with someone home and there's no way I would have ignored it. If I had seen someone uncovering my boats, I'd have been aiming my gun for them. There are several things you don't touch, a mans boat is one of them.

As usually they won't disclose who or how they know. They claim to have the right to inspect any part of your property or dwelling at their will to look for violations. The person that I talked to pretty much made it sound like if I complain or don't comply they will also inspect my house and force me to bring it up to current code. If they try that, they will have a major problem. no one comes in my house without my permission. The local newspaper won't do much at all, its too politically correct, I don't even subscribe to it. I got tired of reading about who did what and to who and how great the city gov. is.

Why should I have to pay a lawyer to defend my own property? It would cost me thousands to fight. I would have to find someone out of the town as well as a lawyer that didn't think like one of those that I am fighting. The problem is that most lawyers are on their side to begin with.

They have dictated grass height and require approved ground cover and all vehicles must be parked in an 'approved manner' on the provided area. They are also complaining about my garden tractor and yard cart, the wrote that up as an unregistered vehicle. There was a case of some neighbors complaining about a house in town, the owner got tired of the hassle and painted the house black with orange shutters. I believe they legally forced him to repaint it. I can't see how they can force or require something from a person that is obviously beyond their means. I feel it's my right to do my own repairs, build or work on my own boat or boats, and to have what ever kind of vehicles I please. If they want me to do or have otherwise, they should pay for it, they certainly take enough tax money each year here. They certainly don't spend it on the roads or pavement. the down town area is a war zone, you don't go there at night, and take a chance during the day. There's a few square miles that are out of control and they do nothing. They would rather pick a fight with the guy in the middle class neighborhood rather than clean up the mess in center city. This isn't a large town, it's big in area but not population.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Major problem

Run for office and get the ordinances changed from the inside! You could have quite a platform and I suspect you'd have a pretty good support base! Nothing like the "little guy" getting trampled by "city hall" to get media attention...

I wish you well...
- Scott

 

[Wishin I was Fishin]

Re: Major problem

Wow!!!! what a mess. My best advise is to do as much research into the matter that you can. Also to keep a level head. While many (most ?) cities or counties have ordinances in place to try and keep too much junk from building up, this sounds a bit excessive. Probly a knee-jerk reaction to neighborhood blight that the "new neighbors" complained about. Under the freedom of information act request all documents having to do with the new ordinance. Be specific. Ask for the affidavit of public notice, meeting minutes, etc.... While the laws are obviously different in every State, I don't think they could legally change the ordinances without public notice of any sort. Most of the time it gets published in the paper in the legal section that nobody reads. Ask to see it. You may consider asking to be put on the agenda at the next town council meeting regarding the matter and after doing research into the matter come armed only with facts. Make copies for each of the council members. You might want to show some of the facts that would be important. Such as stats on how many storage places there are in the immediate area, how expensive they are. Look up the ordinances in other nearby areas and how they compare, should be able to find most online. Also, don't just go and complain, find out what the intent was and offer a reasonable alternative solution that helps them achieve their goals but in a more reasonable manner. You would be amazed at how many times the people making the policy are really just average people, not full time bs politicians who made a policy in response to some do-gooder but just didn't know how to approach it the right way. (knee-jerk) Also, they may not be aware of how the enforcement officer may be interpreting and enforcing this rule. You may be suprosed at how little the council people actually know what really goes on after they pass an ordinance.
As far as the sorry SOB who "inpected" your property. He/she clearly stepped over the line. While the courts have continually upheld the right of an officer to go onto your property to make contact (knock and talk doctrine) if you do not wish for them to inspect your property or for them to be there you may ask them to leave (in most circumstances). Then if there is sufficient evidence clearly visible from the public right-of-way, they may have to get a search warrant from the court specifying what they wish to inspect and why. If you or your loved ones see this person nosing around on your property without your permission again, try and get pictures if you can then kindly ask the trespasser to get off your property immediatley and not to come back without a search warrant. All that being said all states have different laws, but I would believe most of this should be a fairly basic matter of constitutional law. I am not a lawyer, I am not a judge, or am I an expert. But being an non-elected local government official, I do have some experience in these matters. (at least in my local area) If you wish you can PM me and I will give you my phone number and we can chat. I am more than happy to share my limited experience at a rate of well under $300 per hour. Try free.

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: Major problem

So, someone voted the socialist democrats into your local govenment offices.
Document everything, dates, times, names, photos.
Get a notarized statement from neighbor that saw the city going through your
boat, with out a warrant. Get a petition going with all the offended neighbors, and attend the next board meeting. Ask them what they expect you to do if all your vehicles are legally registered. Ask them about the condition of the road(s) surface, city building problems. Inspect, document, pictures of everything the city owns and the conditions it's in. Drainage ditches, Schools, sanitation at city yards. "And when are they going to fix it?" turn it around on them.
Write an article about it and send it to all the media, radio, TV, newspapers. (just copy what you have on the forum) Name names, they hate that. Get a (free) public defender or pro-bono lawyer, contact your local "bar association".
Write a local judge (tell him you are at a loss) and see if he can get you all more time, grandfather clause or an injunction.

 

[Wishin I was Fishin]

Re: Major problem

Also, let me know what jurisdiction this is in. I will try to find their website and many times they will post their municipal code online. I'm very curious as this kinda sounds like a code enforecement officer gone amuck.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Major problem

attorney fees, that's why i mentioned "attorney time, american civil liberties union." they love this kinda crap for free.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Major problem

here, you and the neighbor get together and give them a call.

http://www.aclu-nj.org/

 

[Medic2556]

Re: Major problem

This is why I hate to say sometimes that I live in NJ. Polititians are so corrupt, and they don't work for the people. I am looking to get out, as the rest of my family has. I am waiting to see what my town does. I bought a boat, camper, and now a second boat, all fixer uppers (although the first boat wasn't suppossed to be!), and all are sitting in the yard. I would have to agree, this is a case for the ACLU. As much as I don't like them, sometimes it can work. I would also write to your local state representative, if they can get their head out of the money trough in Trenton. Good luck.

Mark

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Major problem

The city code they are quoting isn't posted online, supposedly the entire code book is posted but yet the property maintenance chapter that they refer to in the letter is not there.

I talked to the immediate neighbors, only one will stand up and fight, most are too old, the rest are either too easily pushed around or work for the city and won't risk their jobs.

I was told that they posted the new ordinance in the local paper months ago, I don't get the local paper, I get only one larger paper that isn't specifically for this area. The local paper is overpriced and has little in it.

Whether or not they pasted an ordinance to ban boats, that wasn't the deal when this house was bought back in 1965, only campers and farm animals were stipulated as banned in an R2 zone.

I had one neighbor that has since passed away that used to keep his 35' fishing boat in his driveway for years, he towed it with an old station wagon to and from where ever he went. The boat was huge and the car barely moved it. No one ever complained. The boats that they are complaining about are small, I have a 14' aluminum boat, a 16' fiberglass trihull, and an 18' Renken 900. All are on Registered trailers with tags. I do pull the tags off the two larger trailers when I park them so as to tilt them rearward enough to allow proper draining if any rain got in. (The tags are sitting in each boat).
I didn't register a boat this year since I've been laid up with a foot injury all year. I haven't had much time to work on anything. I've only been up and around the past few weeks. I still can stay on my feet for very long yet.

The letter says that the ordinance reads:

Ordinance Description: "No inoperative, or unlicensed, motor vehicle shall be parked, kept, stored on any premises, and no vehicle shall at any time be in the state of disassembly, disrepair, or in the process of being stripped, dismantled, or repaired. Painting of vehicles is prohibited unless conducted inside an approved spray booth. No motor vehicle shall be parked, stored or displayed for sale on a front or side lawn or grassy area."

Complaint: An inspection of your property location revealed multiple boats stored in the rear yard and unregistered motor vehicles.

Corrective action required: All vehicles that do not comply with the above ordinance must be removed. Vehicles which can not be legally or capable of being driven upon public streets or are wrecked, abandoned, or are in a state of major disrepair must be removed.

I have no unregistered "motor Vehicles" (boats do not fall under a Motor Vehicle description in the city code book). I do have two pick up bed trailers that I use once in a while, but they are tagged and legal. My boats are covered and not visible from the street, they are also covered well enough that they cannot see whether or not they are currently registered for use or not without uncovering each one. I have two vehicles myself, a Ford pickup and a car with antique tags that does not require inspection. My father who lives with me has a new car and an older car that he keeps for daily driving, both are registered and insured vehicles. I have eight registered trailers, they are not visible from the road, and most are rarely here. They are now since I've been cleaning the garage in plans for a new building, for which they have yet to approve a permit for. (I want to put up a 2 1/2 car garage just like both neighbors on each side of me with identical properties have but they now insist on a minimum of 25' between all and any buildings. The neighbors garages are less than 12 feet from their houses and both are built 12" from the property line. They told me I need to leave 15' to the property line. That would make the largest building I can build about 8' x 12'.)

I went through this before years ago, they accused me of running an auto repair shop here. An also at that time accused me of painting cars here. I have never painted a car or boat here. I have access to a paint booth elsewhere and wouldn't waste my time painting outdoors. If they count brush painting a trailer or boat floor, then they have the problem not me.

The way I read the letter and the ordinance, it's now illegal to maintain your car or boat yourself? That would be fine with me if they were going to foot the bill for any work and garrantee that it's done by a competent person, meanwhile, I'll do all my own work. I don't do major repairs here, I have a garage that I rent elsewhere for such work, but can't store vehicles there and have no room for my boats there. It's also not very secure outside for such items.

What do they really think someone should do with a small boat, do they really think that you should take it to a marina for outdoor storage? It wouldn't last a week.

I also do not leave the motors on my boats, even here, only the largest ones get left on. I pull any motor that I can lift and wheel inside if I'm not going to use the boat right away. I pull anything up to say a 50hp and hand it in the garage. I pull all motors and take them to my shop for the winter for indoor storage. I can't do that with the boats. Boats with no motors are also not registered here.

My point also is what if someone has a weekend race car that they run at a track? That can't be registered and can't be driven, the ordinance pretty much bans them too. None of my boats are stripped, my aluminum boat has no seats in it but I pull them off the pedestals and sit them inside to keep them out of the sun and safe. The other boats only have two seats, and I remove them as well since they are plastic.

One neighbor got a similar letter complaining about "debris behind his garage". That area is blocked from view from all areas other than from the rear corner of my yard. He has a few dozen concrete blocks and some planks stored against the back of his garage. His garage sits only a few feet from a 12' fence and is closed in on the other side with a huge tree and the neighbors shed. he's over 75 and was out there trying to move everything to avoid a fine the other day. There is no problem there, and for them to see what he had, they had to be digging around in my yard to see back there.
No one saw anyone in my yard, but one neighbor said he stopped a guy that said he was a private investigator that was walking around everyone's yard one day when no one else was home. That neighbor also said that he parked his car up the road and removed the tags while he was gone? I have motion lights as does the neighbor nearest me, if anyone was out there when I was home, the lights would go on. I am here most of the day and work out of my house. I didn't catch anyone out there, so whoever it was had to wait for me to leave to do so. There's no doubt that the covers were intentionally removed partly to view the bow area, I had them tied on with twine as well as tensioned with bungee cords. the bungee cords were off, and twine was removed and left hanging on both boats. Someone also made an X on the boat registration stickers from last year. I do do not plan to register any of these boats this season, I won't be able to enjoy them yet and don't feel I should waste the money to do so. I will register two of them next year. I do plan to redo the floor on the one boat soon, but it's not a major project, it's not rotted, just a few loose supports. I also plan to replace the thermostat and timing belt in my truck, if they have a problem with that, they will have to arrest me. If they don't want to watch me work on my car or boat, then they should issue me the permit to build the garage I want, just like the other neighbors have. That won't change the fact that the two larger boats would still be outside. One of the excuses for not allowing the garage was also: No one needs a garage that size". It's not up to them to determine what I need or want. If it's ok for 20 or so other properties, why not me.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Major problem

here, you and the neighbor get together and give them a call.

http://www.aclu-nj.org/

I read what they have to offer, the problem is that it says it takes 6 weeks for a response, according to the letter they sent me here, I have to the 26th of July to comply or be fined and the vehicles will be removed at my expense. By the time they get to it, this will have come to a head here and I'll most likely be in jail if they try to touch any of my vehicles on my property.

 

[Redeyedwiggler]

Re: Major problem

sounds to me like you have a member of the board on your street or on a close by street.. squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Major problem

I ran into something similar her as well. I live in an "upper middle" type neighborhood on a hill. My boat sits on top of the hill in my driveway and the bow is visible from the street. The boat came with me when I moved in. There are several mini-farms on my road. (farmer wannna-bees under 20 acres) I found out through the grapevine that a Dr. Dipsh#t who owns his second home (farm) across the street complained about the boat to another neighbor. The other neighbor, who happens to be a Judge and a friend of my father's, informed Dr. As##ole that my side of the street was in the county and was not regulated. He also advised Dr. Bonehead that if he complained about the boat officially he would have a hard time, considering his P.O.S tractor sits in clear view of the road and the other homes in the area.
I realize this is little help. But you may consider networking some contacts of your own. You would be surprised who knows who, and who also knows you, and would be willing to help. Especially if you have lived there a long time. Sometimes strings can get pulled.
This kind of stuff really makes me angry. I grew up in nice subdivisions with all kinds of rules made up by stuffed shirt associations and nosey neighbors. That's why I have no desire to ever live in another one. My wife and I moved out here to get away from that mess. After paying a mortgage through the nose its a real pain to hear an idiot complain looking down on me. Especially knowing he doesn't even live here full time. If you lived close enough I would almost say bring your stuff over here and we'll put them in the front yard and paint them in the grass! Maybe Dr. Nosehair will have to sell his spoiled kid's horses to make up for the property value losses.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Major problem

Latest update, I had some pos here today complaining that my garden tractor and my boat and trailer, which at the time were up on jack stands while I serviced the wheel bearings, were eyesores and would warrant a citation if not immediately removed. That guy that showed up was driving an out of state car and called himself a private investigator hired by the city. He told me that the boat being on jack stands was a risk to anyone that may wander in my yard.
My answer to that was that if anyone wandering in my yard would have far greater worries than my boat falling on them. (Besides, the jack stands are sitting on 3/4" plywood squares and the trailer is supported by three stands, two at the rear and one at the front, as well as the front jack being down on the ground as well. If it were to fall, someone was doing something they shouldn't have been doing).
I've been told by several unofficial sources that the problem is an 80 year old guy that lives about a mile from here that's been walking around looking for people to report. He's supposedly reported 150+ people with boats and trailers.
I think it's time for him to move to a better neighborhood, because I am not giving in on this. If he don't like boats, tough. The part that gets me is that only one of my boats are visible from the road, the others are covered and hidden in the rear yard. Some of the things that most people got letters on aren't visible from the road, so it means that whoever inspected the properties had to trespass and even climb a few fences. I will be putting up a 6' tall stockade fence and getting a nasty dog. Anyone climbing the fence will get what they deserve. If the dog don't get them, I will.

I have no idea what their problem is with a lawn tractor? I don't use it to cut my grass, but to move things around the yard. I push mow my yard. The tractor is used to park the boats back off the driveway and to retrieve which ever one I need at the time without having to drive into my back yard. I can also park then much tighter with the tractor. I guess they really won't be happy when they see my new tractor I am building with the bucket loader. One of the trailers that they were complaining about is one of those Home Depot lawn tractor wagons with basically two wheel barrel wheels. I didn't realize that you need to register a riding mower. I think when he returns for the next inspection I'll have to make sure that all of my trucks are here too. I keep my two work vans at my shop. Both are legal and registered vehicles too, if they want a parking mess to complain about, I'll give them one. I have enough vehicles to block up half the street.

Keep in mind that this is a neighborhood with 100' x 90' yards, most of the houses are 55+ years old and most are only assessed at $60K in a town where property averages over $300K in most areas. This section has been pretty stable so far, but it's an area that could easily go either way when it comes to value. Most houses that were for sale go pretty cheap. MY house is assessed at $65K, my taxes are already over $5K per year. We are already one of the highest property tax areas in the state.

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: Major problem

I would ask for the ordinances to which you are in default.
Also, inspect the complaining old guy's property and see if his house is in building code compliance.