Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
BAXTR: Everytime I try to reply to your pm, I get cut out. So I will answer here. Besides, I think some of the forum members will be interested.

When I told the fellow that he should be unhappy if he got less than 45 mph, my reasoning was this: It was an 18 foot Bayliner Cuddy so the length and width should probably be similar to the 18 bass boat that I rebuilt. Given the extra weight of the cuddy, I would expect less mph but the high performance reeds would make up some of the loss--so I guestimated 45.

Your boat being a 19 footer is longer, wider, and maybe a little heavier, and probably has more wetted surface area. 42 gps aint too shabby. However, I suspect that if you are not using a stainless prop and you change to one in the same pitch you are using, you should pick up about 2-400 rpm and 2 mph.

Now, Here's what I did to the 125 I rebuilt: one piston was melted and one looked dry so may have beem worn. When I took the block to the shop, they miked it and all four cylinders were out of specs. So, I told the owner that he needed 4 pistons. Shop said they needed to overbore .030 to clean up the melted piston cylinder. I ordered Wiseco pistons and nasty little surprise: I had to wait three weeks until pistons were manufactured. So I had some time on my hands. Since the owner had to wait, and I had nothing to do, my hands got itchy and I went in and did a little mild port work in the bypass side. Nothing major, just trumpet shaped the ports with a Dremel to ease gas flow and give the engine an "edge". Replaced 4 pistons, head gasket, exhaust chest gaskets, fuel pump diaphragm, water pump impeller, and replaced all exhaust cover screws with stainless. Cleaned carbs and set floats a little high on the premise that it is better to run a little rich than a little lean. Timing link looked wrong so I re-set it to where I thought it should be. Owner said speedo never worked so He did not know what speed he had before problem, but engine ran at 5,000 rpm. I blew out the pitot tube.
Went to the river with the owner. Engine fired first time and although it ran a little rough, it settled down when it cleared the assembly oil. YES! It was going to be a good day! This one was behaving itself.
Took the boat to the shallows where there was no traffic and checked timing Dead on 30 deg at WOT. That's dumb luck. ran slowly for a while to build up some oil then checked speed with owners original prop on short high speed run to 40 mph at 6,000 rpm. Changed prop to my 19 pitch stainless. One more high speed run to 47 mph at 5,400 rpm. Never bothered to check any other props--that's the one. Ran the rest of the tank out at about 3,000 rpm. Engine was just humming.
 
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EricR

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
296
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

Isn't it sweet when a job goes so right?
 

baxtr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
387
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

Thanks Frank, I did get all of your reply's but I think others will want to read also.

I went .020 over on all 4 with wiseco's set timing not 5 min. ago to 30 deg at WOT and plan on checking some other props to see if I can get into the recommended rpm's, my 13 1/2 X 17 gets me to around 4800 rpm, I do have a stainless, I think it is a smaller dia. but same pitch and it drops my mph, but I suppose the smaller dia. may bring up the rpms a bit but the only tach I have is one of those digital tiny tach's that senses the firing of the #1 cylinder, I plan on getting a regular tach on before trying other props.

Thanks again for all the help you give everyone
 

ski_king

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

I'm looking to rebuild my Force 125. How much of an over bore can you go? Who did the machine work? I'm in Massachusetts and wondering if any local machine shop can do the work. Where did you buy your parts from? Does anybody have a rebuild kit with gaskets, rings, pistons, etc?
 

baxtr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
387
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

I'm looking to rebuild my Force 125. How much of an over bore can you go? Who did the machine work? I'm in Massachusetts and wondering if any local machine shop can do the work. Where did you buy your parts from? Does anybody have a rebuild kit with gaskets, rings, pistons, etc?

you can get wiseco's in standard, .010,. 020, .030. and .040. Go to a machine shop that does outboards, not just somone that does auto's. yes you can get all the parts. I got mine from outboardparts.com I am in wisconsin and it cost me 75 per hole to bore and hone.

wrist pins on the original pistons are pressed in and are a pain in the rear to get out unless you have a press, and you don't want to break one of the rods, can't find those anywhere. new pistons have circlips that hold the wristpin in, overall piece of cake rebuild
 

ski_king

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

Does anybody port these engines for more power? Can you mill the cylinder head for more compression? BTW...I have Boyesen reeds already.
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

I'm looking to rebuild my Force 125. How much of an over bore can you go? Who did the machine work? I'm in Massachusetts and wondering if any local machine shop can do the work. Where did you buy your parts from? Does anybody have a rebuild kit with gaskets, rings, pistons, etc?[/qu

Start a seperate thread..you are hi-jacking someone elses..this way the other 99.9% will see it..
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

You can port the bypass side. Square the holes for more area, then trumpet shape them for easier airflow. Streamline the port webs to a nice symmetrical airfoil cross section shape. Chamfer the inside top of the ports slightly to help prevent ring catching. Supposedly, you can raise the top of the port by about .060 but this will raise the horepower band to a higher RPM level and reduce low end torque so I have never done it.

Do not port the exhaust on the 4 cylinder engines unless you intend to go full race with no or low exhaust restriction. Reason: The crankpins are 30 degrees apart and the exhaust ports are about 120 degrees for a 30 degree overlap. Especially noticable on #2 and #3 because they fire right after one another. Porting them actually increases exhaust blowback into the cylinders thus actually decreasing the power gained from bypass porting. Actual example: when I ported my Chrysler 140 it became about 4 MPH slower than stock. When I changed to a 2 to 1 lower unit to let the engine rev up, and vented the lower unit above the cavitation plate, the speed increased dramatically. Noisier and not exactly legal. BUT----

The three cylinder engines have 120 degree crankpins and about 120 degree port timing. Thus you can port them on both sides and gain about 10 hp per cylinder.

Go to Chrysler Crew and go to photos. Go to Frank's boats and you will see a three cyl port job. Originally a 75 it ran my test boat as fast as a 105.

By the way: At partial throttle settings you MAY notice a slight mileage improvement because of the better breathing.
 
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ski_king

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

Thanks for the info.

Is it worth milling the head for more compression?
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Force 125 HP 42 vs 47 mph

I never noticed an increase in speed with just milled heads, however---generally speaking from the factory, the higher the horsepower rating of the engine, the higher the compression ratio. So: increasing the compression ratio is a factor in producing more horsepower-- but only one out of many variables to be changed. That said, the head gasket is about .060 thick and I have tested engines without the head gasket to see if there was clearance. There was. SO: it is possible to mill the heads by about .060 inch. But remember--get the compression ratio too high and you will need to use premium fuel.

All things being equal though, you still have an old school design (about 40 years old) with limited potential. It will never equal the potential horsepower of a good loop charged fuel injected engine. Don't expect too much.
 
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