Political geography question for Brits.

[JB]

I am a bit confused terms used to refer to England and her cohorts.

Are Scotland and Wales independent countries? What is their relationship to England? What about N. Ireland? Ireland?

Are the terms United Kingdom and Great Britian interchangable? If not, what are the differences?

What does "The Commonwealth" include? Are Canada, New Zealand and Australia "properties" of England or independent countries that are closely related to their "mother" country, England? What other independent countries are in the same relationship?

Don't want to step on any national or regional pride in my ignorance.

Thanks for clarifying for me.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Brittania and the United Kingdom are geographically the same place. However Great Britain is real estate whereas the United Kingdom signifies England ,Scotland and Wales as three different entities under the rule of one Sovereign king,in this case the Queen of the House of Windsor/Hanover; Also Known as Queen Elizabeth.The province of Ulster was and is a conquered Crown Colony,therefore theoretically a crown property and as such not comparable to England or Scotland.
The British Commonwealth,consists of every ex colony that became either a dominion or gained its independence and did not swear off the British Royal house as its Monarch.India,Pakistan ,Ireland and South Africa swore off the royal house and are no longer part of the commonwealth.

 

[JB]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Thank you kindly, sir.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

....on the Canadian side JB...we are still considered a commonwealth country but we have no political ties to the Queen in terms of rule or answerability etc. There are a few hold out elements within our government that attempt to respect the monarchy...and that is about it. However the monarchy or the U.K has no bearing at all on Canadian politics and legislation. Interestingly...she doesn't really have any political power in the U.K either other than a highly respected figurehead.
I think Australia (again a commonwealth country) swore off the Queen about 5-10 years ago completely. No more connections.
Rolmops comments are pretty much bang on and then some.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Sorry but Australia never swore off the queen.
Just like in Canada,they have a prime minister,but no president and their highest authority residing in Australia just like you have in Canada,is the Governor General who represents Her Royal Majesty your Queen.
You are still a subject of the Crown.

 

[sbn2]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Hi, RPJS calling.

Great Britain is the name of the island made up of England, Scotland and Wales.

The United Kingdom (UK) Is the counrty made up of Great Britain and Northen Ireland.

The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy comprising four constituent countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

Untill very recently all 4 countries were governed totaly from london. Over the past few years a devolved government has been introduced into each country with the power to legistate over certain internal affairs.

The crown has no political power as such although the Queen does have the power to disolve parliment and force a general election of a new government, she also has total control of all armed forces.

The commonweath of nations and the commonwealth are often confused.

The commonwealth of nations has 53 members (all bar 1 being part of the old British Empire), the UK has no power over any of these countries. The Queen is however the head of the commonwealth of nations.

The commonweath is made up of sixteen countries (realms) includding Canada, Australia and New zealand. Each Realm is an independant kingdom with an elected Prime Minister and government, the Queen is the head of state for each of these kingdoms and like the UK she has very little political power but has controll of the armed forces and has the power to disolve the elected governments. These realms are not the property of the UK.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Sorry but Australia never swore off the queen.
Just like in Canada,they have a prime minister,but no president and their highest authority residing in Australia just like you have in Canada,is the Governor General who represents Her Royal Majesty your Queen.
You are still a subject of the Crown.

Perhaps we can get DunaR to wade in on the Australian angle. I was pretty sure they dumped the queen as their monarch. However, lets find out. (Perhaps it was New Zealand?)
As for us up in Canada you are quite right RolM on the Governor General bit. We do maintain that office primarily out of historical respect. It has no impact whatsoever on politics here. Its sort of like getting an honorary doctorate....largely for the optics of respect. That said, it is often a point of parliamentary debate to continue pumping millions into that office/post for minimum return or use.
The subject of the Crown...again....sort of depends on what you mean. The U.K has virtually no say in our politics, parliament or legislation.
We continue a somewhat respectful tie to the U.K but it ends pretty much right there.

 

[PW2]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

In the case of Canada, it is indeed quite confusing (to an outsider, at least).

I deal a lot with the Canadian government, or at least with the Ontario government, in relation to the Ministry of Natural Resources, and government lands are still referred to as "Crown" lands, and any formal agreement regarding allocation of those resources always references the queen (or presumably the Monarchy?) as the granting authority in those agreements.

I'm sure if you ask a Canadian, they will tell you they are independent, and that is done out of tradition only, but it is confusing.

Kind of like waiting for my 30 year old daughter to call me to ask permission to go on a date. If at some point she thought she had to do that, that would lead immediately to a declaration of war.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

The main purpose for their being a British commonwealth is "defence/trade"; as well as Britain's access to the natural resources of their former territories.
In return those countries were supplied with manufactured goods, and various access to technologies within their needs and capabilities.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

The main purpose for their being a British commonwealth is "defence/trade"; as well as Britain's access to the natural resources of their former territories.
In return those countries were supplied with manufactured goods, and various access to technologies within their needs and capabilities.

Vlad, I think you hit on the biggie.
The Queen can declare war upon another nation and that would almost automatically mean that all the Dominions are at war as well.

 

[PW2]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

At least Canada wasn't dumb enough to follow Blair into Iraq. They did go into Afghanistan to help us, however!

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

This is interesting. I can see how the confusion definately surrounds this. PW2 is right on in his reference to the fact that open/government owned land in Canada is still called 'Crown' land.
However, I assure you that the Queen and the U.K have no vested influence, ownership or otherwise in any of our land or the resources. These references are more to do with a bunch of left over traditional references.
That said, I agree that it continues to be an odd reference to such things.
As for the U.K going to war or whatever....they are on there own. They have no stake in our say since the end of WW2 when we started to sever our ties with U.K politically. Canada is a completely sovereign country....connected only by some left over traditions and passing respect to the monarchy and the commonwealth connection.
Even in the U.K the Queen has no political power any more and is maintained largely as a figure head. She has no ability to call the U.K to war or to end one. It is all done by the elected parliament/government. Although I think they allow her to kick off parliamentary sessions and such.
She still resides a signatory to a bunch of this stuff....again, mostly out of respect. However the monarchy does not rule anything any more (fortunately) other than the public.
I imagine a few of the U.K guys will add to this perhaps.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Vlad, I think you hit on the biggie.
The Queen can declare war upon another nation and that would almost automatically mean that all the Dominions are at war as well.

Yes Rolmops n' Vlad, when there is real stress, (or if there is real stress), some day in the future: there is a potential downside to this fuzzy stuff for all the respective Countries. I respect and appreciate our fellow English speaking siblings n' parent, n' I know the world would be very much nastier place without ALL of them. That said: I as an American prefer they way we have it RIGHT HERE where it is real clear where the "buc stops", and where the erroding rights we Americans now have thanks to the 20 page document a great many view as a 'living breathing document' actually comes from that the worlds Libs and our Domestic Libs and Democrats, and some Republicans are trying to take from us one by one. Respectfully, (and I mean it), JR

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

In the days of yore whatever country England invaded/conquered/planted a flag came under the umbrella of the British Empire. These days, they are collectively known as the Commonwealth - a purely economical alliance (trade agreements etc). There are rules to abide by to remain in the Commonwealth, but the rules are politically toothless, it's mainly trade & human rights issues (Zimbabwe being a hot topic recently).

Australia voted on the Monarchy issue 10 years ago, we chose to NOT shed ties with England. As far as I'm aware, our situation is almost identical to Canada.

On the independence issue, any ties we may have are purely ceremonial. Yes, the Goveror General has the power to sack the government but the government has the power to sack the Goveror General. They are laws from years gone by and do not relate in this day and age. If England goes to war, we are not obliged to follow. I believe that the same is true for Canada.

Interestingly though, we also still call non privately owned land 'Crown Land'. I suppose old habits die hard.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

"If England goes to war, we are not obliged to follow. I believe that the same is true for Canada."

During the period when the British Commonwealth system was established, Britain was a very dominant world power, it was not a question of the peoples of commonwealth countries fighting in wars declared by Britain; even though those countries have always in the past willingly sent their brave warriors to the defense of the Britain.

If a commonwealth country was attacked or invaded by a foreign power, it remains Britain's obligation to aid and defend its former colony.

What is very much an interesting turn in events, is the Russians planting their flag and declaring the boundaries of their territory; with regards to the north pole.

Canada and the USA has opposed this move by Russia.

Canada is also at odds with the USA over the very same issue.

When this matter finally comes up at the UN; my question is,
On what side of this issue will Britain stand?

 

[JB]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

My guess is that the UK will stand with Canada in any dispute with the USA. We (USA) may be the 800 pound gorilla in the world, but we are only a distant relative. Canada is a cherished daughter.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

My guess is that the UK will stand with Canada in any dispute with the USA. We (USA) may be the 800 pound gorilla in the world, but we are only a distant relative. Canada is a cherished daughter.

JB this will be interesting to see...but I'm not so sure. The U.K and the U.S have been doing good business over the last 5+ years brought on largely by their alliance in the Iraq war. The U.K might be willing to take a 'hit' on their immediate relationship with Canada rather than the U.S.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Yup! It sure is food for thought, ain't it?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Cherished daughter? And they allow her to speak/act french?

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Political geography question for Brits.

Cherished daughter? And they allow her to speak/act french?

I don't think we are all that 'cherished' by the U.K myself any more...and the French Canadian element has never been up for debate on allowing or not allowing it to function....it is just there, and it is a very big, rooted and traditional community. That said French Canada bears very little resemblance to what would be associated with modern France. It is a very cool culture (one that most Euro-french balk at to be quite honest....perhaps like New Orleans french quarter...only quite a bit bigger). If you ever get a chance and you're in the Canadian neighbourhood take a weekend in Montreal or Quebec City (google this city)....I'm pretty sure if you'll like it a lot if you like taking the odd break from local 'vanilla' lifestyles. You'll find a lot of U.S folks up there taking in some of the fun.