Stalls going into gear?

[MikDee]

89'- 125hp Force, Ok, I've had this motor for about a month now, I've set up the idle screws 1 turn out seems to work fine, compression 120lbs all cylinders, checked the fuel pump valves gaskets diaphram, (all looks good), all the spark plugs seem to be firing good, (normal slightly sooty oily apperance) all the hoses, fuel vents, and filters appear fine. It starts, runs and idles good, but in the lake it stalls as soon as I put it in gear? (very frustrating!), but starts right up immediately (thank god), once I get going, it appears fine, but a little sluggish, it doesn't jump up on plane. WOT is smooth but doesn't seem to be full rpm (non working tach, so I can't tell rpm, or adjust idle rpm) although I keep raising the idle speed screw in the water till it's at a fast idle, but it still stalls? Could there be a problem with the cables hitting the safety shift switch while shifting, causing it to cut out? It's like I turned the key off once I try to shift to forward or reverse? another thing I was thinking about, could I be getting exhaust under the cover, stalling it? I never thought to try it with the cover off on the water? Duh!,,, but, smoke, & water, is coming out fine from the leg, and I don't see anything wrong with the bellows? Between this, problems with the tilt leaking down, trying to diagnose the tach, and problem with the trailer rollers moving out of place, it's driving me nuts! Anyone have any idea's as to why it stalls going into gear?

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Have you tried going a bit richer with the idle screws? That's what I'd try first, but not past 1-1/4 turn out. Most fall within 7/8 and 1-1/4 with the quarter being max.

The bellows can crack and leak under the hood, suffocating the motor. Try without the hood, or pull the hood after a stall and look for smoke.

Also eyeball the belows for any obvious askewness (is that a word ). If it doesn't look perfect, there's something amiss (that is a word ).

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Thanks Willy, I like that word "askewness",,, lol, hafta remember that, and drop it in the conversation with friends, & family,,, for a rise!

Any richer on the screws, and the motor starts to roll, and stumble. Yes, I'll have to go over that bellows real good. Do you think that there is any other seal to check on the exhaust? I noticed searching here that a lot of the newer style Force motors (mid to late 90's seem to have more of a problem with lower exhaust seals (sorry, I didn't think of keeping the cover off, as I was struggling to keep it going at the lake), After extended idling, it just seemed to get slower, and almost fade away to a stall, shifting did it in.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Been through my 88 125, and its does (did) the same thing. You mentions idle screws..well, theres ony one small one in the middle of the tower shaft. Crank it a little more. Cured my quitting in and out of the slip, but when out in the water and warm, still wants to have the throttle pulled and fast idle on a warm start if it sits for 15 minutes or so

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

If you have a US Marine control box: If your safety switch is on the control box with along with the start key, take off the box and remove the back aluminum plate. The wires in there are quite tight and close to the cables. Check to see that the safety switch wires are not frayed or bare. Or, If you just want to check it easy, disconnect the white wire from the terminal on the engine. This is the kill wire, and the engine will now not stop until you short it to ground. If this solves the problem, then look inside the control box. If this does not solve the problem then you need to look elsewhere--From idle speed to binding in the lower unit. Oh! BTW: Just throw in a new set of plugs on general principals to see what happens. Usually, bad plugs will give a hard or no start condition, but it is possible for them to misfire under load and stall the engine-especially if the mixture is slightly off or oil is too rich.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

If you have a US Marine control box: If your safety switch is on the control box with along with the start key, take off the box and remove the back aluminum plate. The wires in there are quite tight and close to the cables. Check to see that the safety switch wires are not frayed or bare. Or, If you just want to check it easy, disconnect the white wire from the terminal on the engine. This is the kill wire, and the engine will now not stop until you short it to ground. If this solves the problem, then look inside the control box. If this does not solve the problem then you need to look elsewhere--From idle speed to binding in the lower unit. Oh! BTW: Just throw in a new set of plugs on general principals to see what happens. Usually, bad plugs will give a hard or no start condition, but it is possible for them to misfire under load and stall the engine-especially if the mixture is slightly off or oil is too rich.

GREAT advice!

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

If you have a US Marine control box: If your safety switch is on the control box with along with the start key, take off the box and remove the back aluminum plate. The wires in there are quite tight and close to the cables. Check to see that the safety switch wires are not frayed or bare. Or, If you just want to check it easy, disconnect the white wire from the terminal on the engine. This is the kill wire, and the engine will now not stop until you short it to ground. If this solves the problem, then look inside the control box. If this does not solve the problem then you need to look elsewhere--From idle speed to binding in the lower unit. Oh! BTW: Just throw in a new set of plugs on general principals to see what happens. Usually, bad plugs will give a hard or no start condition, but it is possible for them to misfire under load and stall the engine-especially if the mixture is slightly off or oil is too rich.

Thanks Frank, but I have the key on the dash. Update: Got out with it today, put some fresh gas in it, 6gals, and tried running it without the cover, it didn't make a difference? Put the cover back on, and after a few quick blasts to 38mph, I took it up to a slow plane about 20mph in the choppy water, drove it across the lake sightseeing (about 6 miles), and back, I noticed my ammeter going way up to 15volts all the way, and back? the other day, it wouldn't go above 13 volts??? go figure? The boat also came with a sealed battery. Anyway, it was fine till I got back to idle speed, then stalling returned at a slow idle, went and got my tools, outta the car, and brought the idle speed up some more, it seemed to help, then went out for one last quick ride, and ran out of gas! Luckily, not far from the ramp, and I managed to get a tow back after a lttle while.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Ok, the latest is, I took the carbs off, and apart, they were clean as a whistle, but I still shot carb cleaner, through every orifice, and jet, I could find, making sure it came out the other end, checked my needles, & seats, all looked ok, even the float level was good, paralell with the top of the carb when upside down. No debri anywhere, even in the fuel filter, not bad considering they were almost empty from running out of gas. :redface: I noticed the carbs weren't openihg fully, so I adjusted the link between the tower bar, and carb linkage till they were, BUT, I lost my "link, & synch"
Can anyone give me a few tips on this? (the Clymer manual's on order, being as I live 50miles from any marine store!) I see the lines on the throttle linkage, and on the eccentric screw, I'm guessing one of them has to meet at idle, while it completes an (imaginary) straight line through the center of the eccentic bolt, not sure about the other one?

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Some help please on the link, and synch. I guess if this don't work for the stalling problem, I'll have to check the piddle drains, and recheck the reeds? although as best as I could see (it's extremely dark in there) the reeds appear to be fine.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Finally got back out on the lake today, after the mini monsoon season,,,lol,,, Nothings changed? after going through the carbs, and resetting them to finally open completely, at least I have a New working tach now, to see what it's doing. I kept raising the idle, all to no avail, it kept stalling going into gear, and to top it all off WOT throttle is only a pathetic 4500rpm?! after the intial dissapointing warm up, and spin around the lake, I even took the time to stop, and put in brand new Champion plugs UL18V, still no change? after all this, if anything it seems worse then before not better?!

After running out of gas the last time out, the gas filter, & the carbs were clean, not a spec of dirt, or debri, anywhere, and it has fresh gas in it now. My fuel bulb always has a nice firm feel, and never usually even needs squeezing to start, or run, the fuel pump all looks good, & clean, the diaphram looks good too, but maybe a bit stretched out from age (don't know if that could be causing this?), timing is right on the money too! the only thing I haven't checked out, is the piddle drains, could they be causing all this? Finally, one more thing, I'm guessing that the spark plug wires on the coils, top to bottom, go directly in line to their respective spark plugs, 1,2,3,4 from top to bottom, they don't cross, right? I also have 3 blue, and 1 black coil on the bottom of the motor.

 

[stickpin]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

sounds like a lean "idle speed mixture to me". Check for any air being sucked in due to gasket leaks etc. Vibrations can cause screws etc. to stretch a bit. This would lean it out while it is idling for a bit. That will cause a lean condition.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Don't think so, 1 turn out on both idle mixture screws, seems to be "the nuts"

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Ok, I've about run out of idea's of things to check, or change. After the last run at the lake, I was still only getting 4500rpm WOT, and stalling 1/2 the time going into gear? The last thing's I did, was replace the fuel pump diaphram, cleaned out the piddle drain system, & rechecked carb float level (flush with carb body when upside down). The only difference I did notice, was the quicker response to the throttle (due to the new fuel pump diaphram I believe). For some reason, the motor still seems to be loading up, maybe I'm grabbing at straws here, but I'm beginning to wonder if the check valves in the fuel pump could be defective? They look ok, but I'm not sure how to test them, or how to even get them out?

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Finally got back out on the lake today, after the mini monsoon season,,,lol,,, Nothings changed? after going through the carbs, and resetting them to finally open completely, at least I have a New working tach now, to see what it's doing. I kept raising the idle, all to no avail, it kept stalling going into gear, and to top it all off WOT throttle is only a pathetic 4500rpm?! after the intial dissapointing warm up, and spin around the lake, I even took the time to stop, and put in brand new Champion plugs UL18V, still no change? after all this, if anything it seems worse then before not better?!

After running out of gas the last time out, the gas filter, & the carbs were clean, not a spec of dirt, or debri, anywhere, and it has fresh gas in it now. My fuel bulb always has a nice firm feel, and never usually even needs squeezing to start, or run, the fuel pump all looks good, & clean, the diaphram looks good too, but maybe a bit stretched out from age (don't know if that could be causing this?), timing is right on the money too! the only thing I haven't checked out, is the piddle drains, could they be causing all this? Finally, one more thing, I'm guessing that the spark plug wires on the coils, top to bottom, go directly in line to their respective spark plugs, 1,2,3,4 from top to bottom, they don't cross, right? I also have 3 blue, and 1 black coil on the bottom of the motor.

MikDee, have you checked your timing? Also, I noticed in my manual that it says that blue coils have to be used with blue cd modules and black coils have to be used with black cd modules and they cannot be mixed. However, you can have a combination of a blue module and coil controlling one set of cylinders and a black module and coil controlling another set of cylinders.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Timing is good, it's been checked, and rechecked since the little black plastic piece broke, and I replaced it. I questioned the one black replacement coil on the forum here, and nobody responded pro, or con, so I figured it didn't matter.

Over the past holiday wknd, I got out to test the boat, I did manage to get a newer prop at a good deal, a nice Stainless Steel "Rampage" 13 3/4"x16" pitch, had a decent 13X19" alum. prop on there originally. Well, surprise, surprise, the motor didn't stall coming off the trailer! nor, Idling out past the buoy's? for once!, I guess it was not overworked with the new prop, hole shot was better, and rpm was more at all speeds, it was quite choppy out there, so I couldn't push it much, or for long, but WOT rpm seemed the same 4500rpm? it was too rough to try trimming up at WOT so I didn't bother. After putting around for about an hour at speeds up to 1/2 throttle, and less, with a few short WOT blasts, we headed in, and sure enough as soon as I hit the no wake zone the stalling began, and annoyingly continued, as I waited in line about 45mins for the mass exodus at the ramp being near dinner time, but I am becoming an expert at driving a stalling motor onto the waiting trailer at the ramp, not that I want to be.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Just a thought, but maybe check that black coil out. Apparently, as my book explains it, the blue coils and cd modules are updates over the black ones. There is a difference with resisitence across the coils and the cd modules and that is why they shouldn't be interchanged. Not sure if it will help you, but at this point I guess you have to start checking even the most trivial of things.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Stalls going into gear?

Success at Last! I finally got my motor to idle without stalling, or stalling going into gear. It was a simple item, but an odd one? that could have saved me from all the hassle of the last 6wks (since I got the boat). From day 1, I set the mixture screws to 1 turn out on both carbs it seemed to run ok there, but I noticed if I set the lower carb screw to 1/2 a turn out the motor really picked up rpm, and appeared to run better, but bucked a little? So going with my instincts, and the good advice on this forum about running too lean, I just reset it back to 1 turn out, but the motor appeared to load up in a short while, and be prone to stall. Finally going against my better judgement, and advice I've gotten, I decided to set the lower carb mixture screw at 3/4 turn out, and Presto! up came the rpm, and I had no problem idling, or shifting into gear??? I don't know what to think, But it works for me? Once I was able to do this Friday, I ran the boat at the lake a few hours, while testing my newer Stainless 16" pitch prop, I was able to get it up to 5000rpm (just about) when fully trimmed out, but I could tell the blades were partly out of the water, but it didn't seem to hurt anything with this prop because the blades are so big. It seems I can run a lot more trim with it then the 19" aluminum prop I had on there, because I was at the limit of my power trim, it wouldn't go any higher. I'll be ok now as long as nothing else changes,,,lol,,, and I want to say Many Thanks to all who helped or contributed to this issue. I'd say this thread is done