Raising your taxes, once again

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

You keep coming at the neocommies (neocoms) with FDR, but I don't think most of these neocoms understand the significance of FDR's actions. Similarly, I doubt they have ever heard of (much less read) F.A. Hayek.

Very Good!.....

 

[woodrat]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Just out of curiosity, who here has health insurance? If you do, who pays for it? If you pay for it, does it seems reasonable, cheap, or too expensive?

I'll start:

being self employed, I have no health insurance of any kind at all. When I was working for the man, I also had NO insurance of any kind, since no employers I ever had could afford it, or chose to offer it. I did once have one crappy job that would have offered a copay on insurance if I were there for two years or something, but I didn't stay at tha job that long.

When I need the doctor, I have to pay for it myself, and when I need the dentist or the eye doctor, same thing. I have been VERY lucky to have no major injuries or illnesses in my life, but I have had two friends my age deal with breast cancer, and they would have been financially wiped off the map without their insurance. One of them had insurance through her job, the other one had a little insurance through some trade organization membership or something like that. They were both very lucky to have survived the cancer and kept their financial houses intact.

with today's insurance and medical costs, going out an "making your own pie" is not as easy to do as it is to say.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Maybe you should look for a job with health benefits?

I have never had a job that did not have health benefits. I would not even consider applying somewhere that does not have that option.

The bottomline is that if you are not making enough while self-employed to afford insurance then you do not have a viable business model and you need to rethink things. What if you did not make enough for food? Would you go around looking for a handout from the government or would you get a better job?

 

[i386]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Maybe you should look for a job with health benefits?

I have never had a job that did not have health benefits. I would not even consider applying somewhere that does not have that option.

I'd be willing to wager that in a different argument you'd be all over someone for expecting the employer to provide health benefits. You'd be right of course. It's a little mind readin' on my part for sure, but I think you'd like to have it both ways.

The bottomline is that if you are not making enough while self-employed to afford insurance then you do not have a viable business model and you need to rethink things. What if you did not make enough for food? Would you go around looking for a handout from the government or would you get a better job?

Spot on.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Maybe you should look for a job with health benefits?

I'd be willing to wager that in a different argument you'd be all over someone for expecting the employer to provide health benefits. You'd be right of course. It's a little mind readin' on my part for sure, but I think you'd like to have it both ways.

You're not entirely wrong here. However, I am in no way mandating employer sponsored healthcare. I am simply stating that many jobs offer benefits and perhaps he should look for one of those of benefits are important to him.

Many jobs offer insurance if the market (the available labor pool) demands it.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Everybody wants high salary AND high benefits. They don't seem to realize that the two are linked. Benefits are simply a function of the salary as part of the labor cost. It's up to the employer to decide how to distribute their labor cost.

If you want more benefits, you have to take less salary. If you want more of each, you need to increase your skill set through experience or education. It's easier though to say "I want to do the same work for more money." Don't we all....

 

[QC]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

There you go being logical again. You silly man . . .

 

[woodrat]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Maybe you should look for a job with health benefits?

I have never had a job that did not have health benefits. I would not even consider applying somewhere that does not have that option.

The bottomline is that if you are not making enough while self-employed to afford insurance then you do not have a viable business model and you need to rethink things.

I am in the middle of forming a partnership with another business, and we are hoping that we might be able to make enough to someday have insurance. I'm guessing though, since you've never had a job without bennies that you have never been self-employed. So you aren't really in a very strong position to lecture about whether or not someone's self employment is viable or not. Insurance for self employed people and their families is famously expensive, and I just don't see spending several hundred dollars a month on that right now. Hopefully the new venture with partners will help spread the cost around a little, but it will probably be a year or two for that to be able to happen.

Oh, and I didn't catch whether you were one of the guys trashing unions, but if you've got bennies with your job, you can most certainly thank the union movement for that.

And about your bennies, do you have any idea what your employer pays to provide you with that?

What if you did not make enough for food? Would you go around looking for a handout from the government or would you get a better job?

Umm... did you hear me asking for government handouts? I thought I was pretty clear that I pay for it myself...

Please try to stick to the things I actually have said, not things you assume a person like me might say...

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Looks like you took my opinion a little personal... easy now.

As far as the union stuff... I'm not in manufacturing (neither is the wife).

One last thing. I don't have a boss. I manage my funds. But back when I did have a boss... I never worked anywhere that didn't offer benefits. It's a choice we all make. My family currently spends hundreds of dollars on insurance....

Back on topic. Congrats on being self employed and trying to start your partnership. That is great and I have a lot of respect for that. The first thing you'll need to understand to be successful is risk/reward. Starting a business is a big risk- that's why it has the potential of a big reward. The risk is it costs a lot of money (including insurance!) and you might lose it alll. The reward is that you might get rich.

Do you want me (taxpayer) to subsidize your business? .

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

... I'm guessing though, since you've never had a job without bennies that you have never been self-employed.

Turns out you are not very good at guessing.

So you aren't really in a very strong position to lecture about whether or not someone's self employment is viable or not.

See above.

... if you've got bennies with your job, you can most certainly thank the union movement for that.

Really? Nobody had bennies before the union? What about all those bankers and stuff?

And about your bennies, do you have any idea what your employer pays to provide you with that?

Yes.

Umm... did you hear me asking for government handouts? I thought I was pretty clear that I pay for it myself...

I must have misread you. I thought yo wanted government healthcare. Anything that comes from the government is a handout.

Please try to stick to the things I actually have said, not things you assume a person like me might say...

That's always a good policy. Maybe we should both try that.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Hey Woodrat, I, like Rubber, always have had health care benes, (ya don't really think Stock Brokers) have a union do ya?

I also own a small bidness, and I provide healthcare fer me employees.

It is a huge financial risk to go without health insurance especially: LONG TERM.

Check with Pacific Care. Yer Family could be covered fer a fairly small premium, (tax deductable if yer bidness provides it fer ya), taxable if ya do it outta yer pocket.

If ya do a cost bene analysis yer cornclusion would hopefully be that is is worth the peace of mind to have some health insurance, (at lease fer real major stuff as that type of policy exists at far less cost).

It would seem ta a feller with only one brain cell more valuable fer a family then havin' a boat. Respectfully, JR

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

My job offers no benefits at all. Soooo, I put away 80 bucks a month for health insurance.

So yes, I practice what I preach.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

WITF, Dont you work at the Aitport?

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Yep.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

I like cheese!.......​

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

They dont offer Insurance? Man I figured they would. I learned a long time ago that your gonna pay one way or the other when it comes to your health.......A little every week or month or one freakin huge sum when an emergency happens. Its always a gamble and we just happened to have won that gamble this yr.........My wifes ankle has brought in bills over $60,000 so far and she will need more surgery within the next 8 months. Our insurance went up quite a bit the month previous to hurting herself and we were not sure if we should have droped some of our coverage........We decided to keep what we had......Whewwwww

 

[woodrat]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

RF:

I have been self employed in some way or another for about 12 years or so. But I have several different things that I do for self emplyment and it has all been by the boot straps so to speak. I've never borrowed money to be in business and I've never had a lot of cash flow or income out of it either, but it has kept the basic bills paid and it has given me personal freedom that punching a time card never did.

When you start talking about how I should buy insurance instead of spending money on a boat, you are starting to tread in personal territory where you actually don't know enough about me or my situation to even make statements like that. The tiny amount I pay per month on my boat loan wouldn't even put a dent in health insurance premiums for my family. And quite frankly, when I hear of the nightmare situations my parents find themselves in with their HMOs and health insurance companies, I think I may not be that much worse off without it given the money it would cost.

Would I like to have a government health plan? sure, why not? Would I be getting a "handout"? try not to forget that i am also a taxpayer, and a hard worker, and not sitting around on my thumbs not contributing anything to the greater good.

And try not to forget that big pharm is getting pretty fat on government policy that benefits them. Is that a handout?

I wouldn't mind seeing government health coverage. I might even sign up for it, depending. I'm sure it would be an imperfect system, with lots of problems and rough spots, but anyone who thinks that what we have now is a perfect system is living in a vacuum.

Am I out there demanding it? No.

Am I prepared to fork over several hundred dollars a month for insurance that may seriously restrict my choice of health care provider and fight me on coverage when I need it, while the insurance company invests the profits in hedge funds and builds tall office buildings everywhere? no way!

Do I hope that me or mine never get seriously hurt or ill? You bet I do.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

about the stockbrokers and bankers, no of course they never needed a union to get bennies. If RF and Murky are stock brokers and bankers, then I take it back: neither of them need thank a union for their bennies. The rest of us peasants who work or have worked in manufacturing, service or any of the other peasant jobs out there, well, they definitely have unions to thank for their decent wages and bennies, to the extent that they have them. Even if you work for a small employer who provides bennies without a union contract hanging over his head, it is still largely because 100 years of union work have made those kinds of things the standard.

That being said, I have never joined a union, even when I had an opportunity to, because I think they have become part of the problem and have gotten too big and self serving to be a force for positive change anymore. Which I think is too bad.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

I am not a stock broker, nor am I a banker. However, I completely disgaree that all jobs with benefits derived those benefits as a result of the union. To take such a stand complete ignores the reality of the market.

Unions didn't drive the market (in this case, potential employees), the market drove the union. You have incorrectly identified the effect as the cause.

On an aside, I find it curious that most people bemoan the unions as bad for the country, but then suggest that the government take over the role of the union. Instead of paying union dues to ensure our benefits, we now pay taxes to ensure our benefits.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Raising your taxes, once again

Never been iin a union, always had bennies. Salesmen are not covered under hourly wage requirements either. I don't stand on the taxpayer BS either. I don't get 15 cents out of each dollar I am putting in and you want to have healthcare added in. Most municipalities if they were busness's would be bankrupt. Government wants more money they raise taxes. Business's want more money they very rarely are able to raise the price of their goods. They have to be SMARTER than that..... They have to be more efficient, they have to make more with less, they have to find better ways to do things cheaper. Funny how government never seems to take this approach. I wonder why?