Need A Welder's Opinion.

[luckyinkentucky]

I've decided to pick up welding as a thing to learn. There are several things that I need to have done, and after a buddy of mine gave me an estimate of $600 to do all of the work for me I decided to go out and learn how to weld.

Other than my Masters Degree in Wildlife Biology I have learned everything on my own without the help of any instructors. I'm self taught in plumbing, electricity, engine repair, auto body repair and quite a few other things that have come up through the years. I have a steady hand, and several people I have spoken to have said I would be good at it once I learn. So, I've pretty much established that I have common sense.

The same guy that quoted me $600 for repairing 2 boat trailers, a horse trailer, and various small jobs around my property suggested I get a low end stick welder, and learn for myself on several scrap pieces of metal. He said that will save me a lot of heartache and more money in the long run having someone else fix my mistakes.

My question is this ....

From an experienced welder's point of view is stick welding the easiest and most practical form of welding for everyday applications?

I found a stick welder in the link provided that seems to fit my needs. Does it seem like a welder that would give me something to work with in welding trailer parts and various auto body uses?

I'm in the dark here .... can someone point me in the right direction if this is not what I want. Thanks for the help.

Lincoln Electric Stick Welder

 

[WaterWitch2]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I used to work at Classic Limousine as lead man and built hearses and limos. We used MIG welders for all the frame and sheet metal fabrication. They were high dollar Miller 330 VAC 3 phase units as I recall. I learned to weld using a MIG welder. I never got into stick welding. I think MIG is easier to learn on. I have a 115 amp 110 volt mig at home and weld up to 3/16" mild steel on occasion and sheet metal all the time.

 

[JohnnyBee]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

Lucky
I also have been teaching myself to weld, for quite a while now. I really recomend a small Mig welder. I tried with a stick welder and found it hard to make good welds and it is limited it what it can do. I have a Lincoln Electric SP-125 with a large tank of gas and it is a better welder than I am. It will allow You to be able do repairs and projects while only costing materals and lots of labor. My setup I belive cost $600.00 new retail. I got it in a trade so I don't know, but You may be able to get something even cheeper now. I also suggest that you get a good angle grinder, it will become Your best friend, I've gone through two.
Good Luck
If you still want a stick welder I'll sell You my Lincoln Electric AC-225 cheap.

 

[sbklf]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I am not a certified welder, just doing it a long time. Started with a stick and then bought a MIG. I too would suggest the MIG, very easy to use. I bought a 150 amp machine and it is fine for most welding but for thicker metal, like 1/4", I wish it was bigger with a higher duty cycle for continuous welding. I would also buy the Argon mix bottle so you can use solid wire rather than flux core wire. I agree that a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a knotted cup brush and grinding wheels is a must. MIG welding requires clean metal. I also use an auto darkening weld hood and really like it. As for cost I think my set up cost about $1000.00 10 or 12 years ago. I bought a Miller and a large customer owned bottle and it has not given me any problems and I weld a lot with it. Hope this helps. Kevin

 

[Joe_the_boatman]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I'm also new to welding, and bought my first about a year ago. So far I've done 2 car exhausts and miscellaneous stuff around the house.

I bought a flux-core wire welder from Harbor Freight for $79 after coupon (and it was on sale). I like it, but wish it had more settings (only High and Low amperage, and wire feed speed).

I work around construction sites, and with all the options pipe fitters have, I see them using stick welders, for what it's worth.

So, my advice would be to pick up a cheap one, and see if it's something you're into. Upgrade when you need to.

I would second the recommendation on an auto-darkening helmet. It's a pain when you're holding the piece, the gun, and the mask keeps flipping down on it's own. You'll need welding gloves, too ($7 at Harbor Freight).


I think stick welders cause the most slag, wire feed second most, and MIG the least. Is that right? I get some slag when I weld, but I'm not entering it in any beauty contest. As long as it's a good bead, I'm happy.

 

[tommays]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

With stick it takes a LOT of time to learn how to do any out of position welding (not flat)

So i would go with MIG the big learning issue is welding VS laying a goofy mess of wire on something


As things get beyond sheet metal thick the small units do not really have the amps to give good welding penetration


Then you have to start a lot more prep work with grinding out the work and planing 3 or4 passes to get a full weld


Tommays

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I spent 3 year in Vocational school and another 4 years in apprentice to become a steam fitter. I was nuclear certified in both TIG and Stick welding at the time I decided to switch careers. Ran MIG for the while but was never all that excited about it.

Still do a lot of work on the side and will most likely open a shop once I retire. I love fabrication work but can’t touch the money I’m making in the trade.

I have a 300/300 Idealarc TIG machine sitting in the garage whiuch gives me the best of both worlds 300 amps of TIG and 300 amp of stick.

For a beginner or an amateur I’d stick with a MIG machine. They are much less forgiving as far as weld quality is concerned. Very few amateurs without a lot of practice and training could pass a “bend test” using straight stick which is scary, considering that in a lot of scenarios a weld failure could mean someone’s life.

Welding is a responsibly not to be taken lightly.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I am a retired pipefitter/welder, been welding over 30yrs, on commercial construction, mostly stick welding, and I recommend a DC welder, not an AC welder, they're ok, but DC machines deliver stronger cleaner welds, and I find are easier to weld with, especially using (reverse polarity) but are usually more expensive. I've welded some hugh pipes, and hangers with an ARC welder, that's their advantage, strength. I think alot of people starting out buy an inexpensive AC machine, and find trouble with keeping the arc lit, and poor penetration (quality) of the welds, so get disgusted with it, and go to mig welders. Also a lot has to do with the welding rod, E-6010 welding rod is very nice to work with, and is an all purpose, all position rod, but can only be used with a DC machine. The AC equivalent rods E-6011, 6012, 6013, don't flow as well, or make as clean, or as strong, a weld. I haven't done much Mig welding, but it is a bit cumbersum, especially if you need to weld in all positions, the trick here is to get a machine that you can control the wire speed, and current, alot of the cheaper machines don't have a rehostat, just a low/high amp switch, and weld penetration is not the best, they're mostly for light around the house work, if that's what your looking for.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

Sorry double post -deleted

 

[MikDee]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I spent 3 year in Vocational school and another 4 years in apprentice to become a steam fitter. I was nuclear certified in both TIG and Stick welding at the time I decided to switch careers. Ran MIG for the while but was never all that excited about it.

Still do a lot of work on the side and will most likely open a shop once I retire. I love fabrication work but can?t touch the money I?m making in the trade.

I have a 300/300 Idealarc TIG machine sitting in the garage whiuch gives me the best of both worlds 300 amps of TIG and 300 amp of stick.

For a beginner or an amateur I?d stick with a MIG machine. They are much less forgiving as far as weld quality is concerned. Very few amateurs without a lot of practice and training could pass a ?bend test? using straight stick which is scary, considering that in a lot of scenarios a weld failure could mean someone?s life.

Welding is a responsibly not to be taken lightly.

Hey Dingbat, It appears we have similar backgrounds, I spent 2 1/2 years as a machinist apprentice in a defense plant, with night schooling, then 5yrs as a Steamfitter apprentice, what local do you belong to brother? I'm retired from local #638 NY City, I've been X-ray certified on stick since 1972 at Brooklyn Union Gas (BUG) Naptha cracking plant tank farm, been certified stick welding in all the local powerhouses, including being X-ray certified in stainless, iconel, & mild steel TIG, & X-ray certified stainless, & mild steel stick, in 2 Nuclear powerhouses, Shoreham L.I., and Berwick Pa. I've passed many a stick bend test over the years, (actually one in The Getty oil refinery in Wilmington De. yrs ago) or on the job stick X-ray tests, such as high pressure steam trench welding at JFK airport. I also would recertify through my local's trade school every 3 yrs. I prefer fabrication work myself, rather then straight welding all day, (you can get a trained monkey to do that,,,lol) or refabrication of imported "frigged up" prefabrication.
By the way, you have the welding machine I want it does it all, how much power does it need?

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I'll only be using the welder on 1/4" steel at the thickest part. I'll tell you what I have to do, and see which welder would be best suited for those applications.

I have a tandem boat trailer that needs a new fender that is 1/8" thick. I have a horse trailer that needs 2 new tubes put in it on the sides that are the same thickness. Another small boat trailer that is 16 feet long that needs a non-support tube rewelded. I also have various non-critical auto parts that need to be welded. One of them being a pair of trunk brackets welded on the trunk lid.

So, for those applications would I be better off using an arc or MIG welder? I will be using the welder outdoors, and will be using a 220v power source from the garage.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I'd steer you to a good 220v mig welder, one with a rheostat (current control knob, or dial) with maybe 200amps power, not necessarily flux core as that's not as clean, or nice of a weld, make sure you get a machine that can work with an argon bottle, some don't. This would be easier, better to weld with then a small AC arc welder. Or for heavier work, I'd suggest a good 220V DC welder, with as much amps as you can get for the money, and have a good electric source to power it

 

[PondTunes]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

The local community college here offers welding classes that teach everything from basic technique to pipe welding. You could audit a couple classes and learn the basics the rest is practice. A basic class will give you the ins and outs of each type of welding.

If you're going to be welding on boats (aluminum) you can't just weld aluminum with anything. Take a look at an aluminum boat and you'll notice very uniform pretty welds this was done with a TIG machine. Tig welding uses a hand held torch that heats the two metals being joined until they are molten. Heat is controlled by a foot petal that can vary the amperage within a set range. A stick of filler metal is dipped into the pool with your other hand as you guide the molten pool. This method produces no spatter and the cleanest welds no matter what material you are welding but it is one of the more challenging of the three to learn. This method also requires a shielding gas such as argon to protect the weld from contamination until it cools.

Mig welding is probably the easiest of the three to learn. Mig welding is done with a handheld gun that feeds wire off a large spool, you pull the trigger and small wheels push the wire through the cable to the gun when it contacts the work a short circuit melts the wire and welding starts. With this method you aren't required to move your hand in as the electrode or filler metal is consumed and welding can be done in any position with ease. This method produces minimal spatter and cleanup is easy. A shielding gas such as argon is required to protect the weld, unless you are using flux core wire (produces more of a mess/spatter) I don't recommend a mig setup if you are welding aluminum.. It can be done but TIG is much better for working aluminum

Stick welding is probably the hardest to master, produces the most mess but is the cheapest way to get started welding. The "sticks" are the electrodes used for welding they are covered with flux that protects the weld as a shielding gas would. You have to constantly adjust the distance from the work as the electrode burns up, while maintaining the proper angle and arc length. Too close and the electrode will stick to the work, too far and you'll either break the arc or get contaminated welds.

In short it really depends on what you're going to do if aluminum repairs are in your future then you are going to have to have a tig setup. You can buy combo units that will do all three but they aren't cheap. Most Tig rigs can also do stick welding so keep that in mind for your selection. If you're going to do simple repairs you can get by with a cheaper machine but it depends on the scope of your project.

Try to stay away from ANY welder that is 110v unless you just feel like wasting money. Even if you just get a cheap one to learn with you'll quickly outgrow it. 220v welders are well worth their price tag.

I built this trailer using a 20 year old 220v Miller Stick Welder, and a whole lot of time! A mig setup would have made this job MUCH easier, but buying a Mig setup wasn't in the budget!

 

[PondTunes]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

I'll only be using the welder on 1/4" steel at the thickest part. I'll tell you what I have to do, and see which welder would be best suited for those applications.

I have a tandem boat trailer that needs a new fender that is 1/8" thick. I have a horse trailer that needs 2 new tubes put in it on the sides that are the same thickness. Another small boat trailer that is 16 feet long that needs a non-support tube rewelded. I also have various non-critical auto parts that need to be welded. One of them being a pair of trunk brackets welded on the trunk lid.

So, for those applications would I be better off using an arc or MIG welder? I will be using the welder outdoors, and will be using a 220v power source from the garage.

A I agree the MIG setup is what i'd recommend. It will cost you more but you'll probably be happier in the long run. It will produce a better looking weld, and cleanup will be much easier. Get an argon bottle and stay away from flux core IMO.

220v all the way, and remember that arc will burn your eyes and anyone else that happens to be watching! Having your eyes burnt from a welder makes you feel like you've got sand in your eyes for a couple days. During those days you'll feel horrid; it hurts to blink, hurts to move your eyes, and light causes you agony!

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

Yep on power...220 the only way. I run a good stick Ac/Dc, neighbor has the Mig...and an auto dark helmet the only way to go

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

OK. Tell me what you guys think.

I went out and bought this model tonight. Lincoln Electric 3200HD welder

I was talking it over with my dad who is a master electrician, and he told me that if I went with a 230v unit I would have to run an additional wire to my garage, and that seemed like too much trouble for me since everything is underground and 100 ft. from the house. So, for my purposes I went with the 120v unit so that I shouldn't have to do anything with the wiring in my garage.

Is the welder I chose a good all around welder for what I will be using it for? Like I said earlier, I'm not going to be welding anything above 5/16" steel, so this is the one the salesman recommended.

 

[bassboy1]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

We just bought the Lincoln weld pak 750 from HD. It was a returned item, and missing its regulator, so we bargained, and got it for 275. 65 for a new regulator off of ebay, and we are good to go. The auto dark helmets can be had, new, off of ebay, for like 30 bucks, shipping included. We have one here, and one on the way.
We wore out our old Craftsmen stick welder a few years back, and just been using oxy/acet since, and if there is anything slower/more painstaking than a stick welder, it is an oxy/acet. Finally, it got to the point that we had to get another.
Now that you own it, you will find a lot more to do with it. You mighta been happier with a 230 volt, and running new wiring is nothing. The hardest part woulda been fishing it through, unless you have it set up like us, and have an open run, and just put it through conduit across the ceiling (of the shop - not house) Definitely practice on scrap, and go ahead and make some sloppy ones, till you get the best technique down. Also, make sure you clean your steel well. If you don't already have one, go ahead and pick you up a 4 or 4 1/2 inch angle grinder - 2 even. That is the most important thing, if you are gonna be using anything other than brand new steel. Also, you will want a second miter saw, to dedicate to steel only. Trust me, it is addictive (anything pertaining to tools is, - we have about the same $ in our tools, as our house) You are gonna need the argon/CO2 bottle. The flux core stuff is great for practicing, before obtaining the bottle, but not practical for actual welding.
Spend some more time reading up on it, great reading there. Have fun.

 

[bassboy1]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

hey pondtunes, are those boards running down the middle of your trailer walk boards? If so, I would put some non skid something on them. 2 by material seems to always be very slick when wet, and it hurts to fall on a ramp. Also, your bunks seem high, is there anything that sticks down below the toons? Seems you could save a little bit of altitude, and help in shallow ramps. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

How much is an argon/co2 bottle, and where can I find them?

 

[dlngr]

Re: Need A Welder's Opinion.

Look in yellow pages for "welding supplies" I use a 'q' size bottle of 75-25 about every 6 months,cost a little under $40. The 'q' size is about 3 feet tall.
That's a very decent machine you bought,I think you'l love it. Get some clean steel scraps to practice on, in 3-4 hours you"ll be welding![eye protection must be stressed again and again!]
You mentioned welding outside-a light breeze can blow the gas away from your weld,messing up your welds.You may need some type of tarp,or sheet to keep the wind off of your tip.. Good luck and have fun with it!