Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

The new sonar won't be going on the kayak. It will be going on the 14' Starcraft/40hp Nissan. http://www.canadalake.org/Starcraftii.html It has one of the old style 3-beams, that is not much smaller than the one pictured. I currently have Humminbird transducers mounted on 3 boats, 4 if you consider the portable unit. The kayak is the only one with the side scan transducer.

Nice looking rig. I was thinking of putting on some bow rails myself mainly for the safety of the front seat so if a jerk flew by us the person up front would be able to quickly grab ahold of the rail before the wave it. Also good for jocking the boat around at the dock.

Does anyone have trouble having their castings get wrapped around it?
I thought it would interfere too much with the person in the front like as they are cranking in and their line wraps around it as the lure comes out of the water.

I see your Humminbird quick release up there. Yep, that's the reason I went with Humminbird. I have a windshield and not much room to get fingers in between to release the unit from the boat so the Humminbird setup is the best I've found.

I've had a Humminbird Piranna portable years. When I bought this new boat all I had to do was call Humminbird and for a few bucks they sent me the base holder you have on the Starcraft. Worked great. All I had to do was wire in the transducer and the power and I was good to go. Worked great. But when I bought the 797 it was quite a difference. I can be doing 32 mph (my top end) and the 797 continues to read the bottom where the older one wouldn't work much over 10-15 mph if at all. I'll hold on to the portable for the times I'm on vacation and rent a boat or if my main unit breaks.

One nice feature that the combo GPS has is when you're trolling around a lake and you spot fish or structure on the finder you can just push one button to mark the spot. A few simply taps on the cursor and you can name it too as to what the spot is. You can also pick from many icons to show whats under that spot without having to name it.

You can still use one of your Humminbirds up front since the front fisherman can't see your screen.

By the way, the 797's base swivels sideways and up and down so you could swing it around to face forward if you wanted to while fishing. Nice feature when the suns hitting the screen.

The GPS is what is all about for my needs. With the mapping card (Cabelas 2006 Hotmaps Premium on special at $59) I'd purchase that right away before they run out. You could always resell it on Ebay if you didn't get a GPS model (it's half the price for sidescan without GPS I think). Once inserted it shows bottom structure, Fish locations and fish species and what's coming up beneath your boat BEFORE you get there.

GPS also plots a bread crumb trail too, so you could return to the dock in a totally fog or darkness without hitting an island, rock or obstruction.

The sidescan technology is just an additional bonus for me because I'm more concerned with the GPS feature first.

I amazed when I'm on a lake now as to how shallow many areas are and how few are actually marked with warnings. I see boats flying over these areas pulling skiers and not even knowing they are in 2 feet of water. Many launches are very shallow when leaving the dock and not marked either.

And on a river like the Hudson with a 6 foot tide one direction you're ok, on the way back a few hours later you see huge pilings sticking out of the area you already went over.

I was in a large bay last week in the morning on the Hudson. Going back to same bay 3 hours later I ran aground because I took my eyes off the screen as I was switching screens while cruising by buoys as I was trying to see if I could adjust the satellites set the GPS was locked on to and suddenly BAM! I ran aground. Luckily it was a muddy sandbar and no damage to the prop other than having to repaint it. Could have been a tree or rock. I was lucky and STUPID too!
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

The rails: we decided to leave them for now, for the reasons you mentioned. Haven't had the experience that we needed it though. :) Underhand casting to get under docks is limited by the rails, and to some point by being an alum V with casting deck is much different than a bass boat. Landing of any decent size fish requires stepping off the platform. The rail may be modified or removed in near future to accomidate a front mount trolling motor.

Humminbird Mounts: Yep, I like them too, but will still give allot of evaluation to Lowarance and Eagle units. I will have to buy additional mounts with them.

Speed/bottom: On the Starcraft I can keep bottom at wot 32mph even though it is a large transducer. It can and will loose at speed and deeper water (over 50'). It did take allot of searching to find the sweet spot for location.

GPS: Is about $100 extra over the fishfinder, so its a no-brainer. But the focus is the fishfinder first. Most of the water I fish is not included or is one of the low detail maps. I will use it to assist in night navigation for walleye fishing.
 

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

Lowrance and Eagle are the same company now. They should just combine all their models and dump the Eagle name. Lowrance had a nice clear screen but it was no better than the higher Hummingbird models IMO.

Check out the Garmin units too as they had the next best release system. It's a simple knob on one side.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

The Lowrance units have a LOT more features like NEMA 2000 and now also have an Ethernet port to allow a lot of input and output devices to interface with it

Like radar ,fuel flow,ect


This raises the price a LOT and and is why the two lines are made





Tommays
 

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

Had a chance on Sunday on the Hudson River to do some sidescan imaging.

Problem with the area of the Hudson I was on . . . I tried to get to some of the trees that had fallen partially in the river, I couldn't get close enough because the bottom came up too fast.

I'll get a few clear ones for those who want to see what sidescan technology looks like next time I'm on the water. Looks to be 80 degrees this coming Sat.

This first one is a good example of how great a GPS is when bought as the GPS/Fishfinder combo. Notice the green and red buoys which shows the sides of the channel. My Wife loves this feature because it makes driving the boat like a video game. She just stays in between the buoys (you can see them coming miles away, which you can't see that far with your eyes even on a clear day, It's like having radar). Also the white allows her to stay in the channel, so it's just like driving on the highway!

The white is the actual channel which ships have to stay in. Lighter blue is shallower and the darker blue is real shallow about 0-6 feet (depending on the 6 foot tide). The green is vegetation like Lilly pads. Yellow is land.

Also shows the breadcrumb trail which one could just reverse your course and follow that trail back in total darkness or fog and not hit anything.
Navionics East 2006 ($59.95) Hotmaps Premium card inserted

DSC03612.jpg


I'm tossing this next shot to show you what the WeatherSense accessory looks like.

The bars are at 2 hour increments. You can see how the pressure was rising. Shows the sun. Will show clouds and rain as weather starts changing (pressure drops). Came as a freebie promo ($79 retail) by sending in a coupon.

DSC03607.jpg


Here is a shot of the structure I was approaching that I slowed down to scan the bottom as I was cruising by (6 mph max for sidescaning).

DSC03604.jpg


Here is the sidescan image. Sorry I didn't realize I was catching my reflection until I got home. I'll take more examples and take the pic at an angle to get rid of reflections.
But the white puffy things are the rocks below the surface next to the pile of rocks holding the light or flag.

It's amazing how bright it reproduces the bottom structure only using sound waves.

You are looking at a vertically split screen. Left side of the boat (screen) no rocks, right side of the screen shows the rock pile under the surface as I was cruising by.

DSC03605.jpg


Here is a shot of the approaching ship in the first pic. Figured you would enjoy seeing it since it was coming at ya!

DSC03614.jpg


I'll show some better examples of bottom structure when I get back on Lake George. Hudson River is very muddy and fast moving. Lake George is 32 miles, pristine and clear. I think I can cruise over some sunken ships that I've seen marked on paper maps.

I know there are a bunch of wrecks in Lake Champlain. Whitehall on the lower end of Champlain was the birthplace of the U.S. Navy. Valcor Island had a famous Naval battle. I launch my boat right near that Island. I'll check out where the wrecks are on a paper map and scan over them and post some pics.

Another lake I go on is the Great Sacandaga Lake which was created by damming and then it flooded over an entire town years ago. Should be some interesting scans on that lake too.

Here is a shot of the fishfinder screen:

DSC03606.jpg
 

gonefishie

Commander
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
2,624
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

On the last pic, see how it went from about 32-33ft then up to about 26-27ft, dip a little, rise again and drop back down to almost 30ft. That could be a hump but most likely a little ledge. Can you do me a favor and scan something like that? I would be interested to see how the side scan do on that kind of structure.
 

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

On the last pic, see how it went from about 32-33ft then up to about 26-27ft, dip a little, rise again and drop back down to almost 30ft. That could be a hump but most likely a little ledge. Can you do me a favor and scan something like that? I would be interested to see how the side scan do on that kind of structure.

No problem.

For others that are viewing this the above pic with the fish is just the standard fish finder image not a sidescan image. I'll post a pic of a similar area with the sidescan view on after I do another scan. It's just that the Hudson being a river is pretty boring for scan samples as the bottom is mostly flat and the same in most areas.

Gonefishie: Page 11 of the manual shows what you are looking for as to how to view the humps and ledges with the sidescan view.

http://humminbird.com/images/PDF/797.pdf

It's the black column of water with the center line split in the middle which gets wider as the water get deeper. Theright side of the screen is the bottom on the right side of the boat.

Look at page 11 and if you are viewing it on a laptop just turn the screen side ways. The split in the middle would be the water line now. This gives you a better idea of what you are viewing. The shadows give you the 3 dimensional effect which outlines rocks, tree branches etc that are laying on the bottom.

This unit will chart bottom topography up to 150 feet deep for sidescan survey and 480 feet deep in for the standard fishfinder depth mode. Scans the bottom out to 360 feet to each side of the boat or 720 feet of total bottom coverage. There is an optional Dualbeam "plus" transducer for added coverage. You would trade your "new, unused" transducer back to Humminbird for an added charge for this optional transducer. The manual link above explains how the plus unit works.

By the way: you can also buy these units with the Navionics maps pre-loaded in the unit already (about $200 more for the Marine version and the Hotmaps premium versions installed) I prefer to buy the 1 year old version maps to save money though.
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

Hmmm.....Side scanning on Lake Champlain.....shipwrecks, nah,... I bet you are looking for Nellie! :D :D

Keep the sidescan info and pictures coming. Thanks.
 

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

Hmmm.....Side scanning on Lake Champlain.....shipwrecks, nah,... I bet you are looking for Nellie! :D :D

Keep the sidescan info and pictures coming. Thanks.

I think you mean Nessie . . . "Nessie" is the Loch Ness Sea Serpent in Scotland.

Champlain has it's own Sea Serpent called "Champ".

I did run into a "Nellie" . . . she was this old hooker I bought a drink for at the Naked Turtle bar at the Plattsburgh Marina last week and then the lights came on in the place and I said Woe Nellie:eek:
 

_brad_

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
173
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

I bought the 2006 hotmaps from Navonics last year and I really love it. I use it in my H20. Some of the lake maps are very detailed where some are not as detailed. Lake Mille Lacs has a super accurate map that I have found Bouys in the middle of the night by GPS alone. Navonics in my area had 8000 maps where Lakemaster only had a few hundred for the same price. Lakemaster will allow you to go to a lot closer detail then Navonics under 1/8 mile. A lot of the maps in the chip were old surveyers maps that could be as old as 1940 where some of the maps were done using modern mapping equipment which is very accurate. I am no expert on the setup however I remember reading in a fishing minnesota forum that if the unit is not set up correctly using the corret datum it can put you off target. From your experience with Navonics I am glad I have not had to deal with them ho


I have also heard of great results with the 2006 Hotmaps and the H20...
 

mthieme

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
3,270
Re: Navionics . . . I'd look elsewhere . . .

I've had very good experiences with Navionics and will continue using them. The biggest problem is that they seem to be more commercial grade and the units that use them are priced accordingly.
I also have a Lowrance unit - good unit - lousy software.
 
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