1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

[GWDolphin25]

On this motor, I rebuilt the carbs and have good even compression on all 6 cylinders. I have new plugs and wires. I get a spark on all six but the engine will only sputter and cough but will not fire up. I then tried starter fluid and nothing. I took the plugs off and got an obvious mist of gas mixture in all cylinders. From there I checked they timing which was right on and I bypassed the ignition switch just for kicks. Still the same. No air coming into the fuel lines and no leaks. Next I visually inspected the stator but it looked good so I checked it's output and got up to 140VAC during cranking but no more. I suspect this is low and that I should replace the stator but it is rare for these to go bad when they look good and clean. I only have basic tools so I was wondering if I had nowhere else to go and I should just replace the stator. At $330 it's worth a shot here. Thanks!

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

before buying a new stator pop the flywheel of and check for loose magnets.
in the outer rim.

good luck

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

First of all you should never spary starting fluid into your motor, use pre mixed fuel. These engines usually have a 35 Amp battery charging capacity. Due to the size and weight of the flywheel magnets, it is highly recommended that you check to make sure both the triggering and charge magnets are still secure in the flywheel before you service the engine as stated. A loose or broken magnet can be deadly to you or your pocketbook. It is a recommended you index the flywheel and check the timing on all cylinders when servicing these engines. Also check for static firing and intermittent spark.

Disconnect the yellow wires from the stator to the rectifier and retest. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

Check the stator and trigger resistance and DVA output as given below for each bank:

Wire Color: Check to Wire: Color Resistance: DVA Reading

Brown wire: Brown/Yellow wire: 900-1100 (35 amp): 150V or more Connected
Orange: Orange/Black :93-103 OEM :12-24V Connected
Orange: Orange/Black :45-55 CDI :12-24V Connected
White wire urple wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire :Blue wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire :Green wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire urple wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Blue wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Green wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Black/White wire 2nd connector: 215-225 :Not Applicable

(a) Use a comparison reading as different brands of meters will give different readings. The typical range is 1M to 5M ohms. As long as you have approximately the same ohm reading on all six tests and the correct output with the DVA meter, the Timer-Base should be good. The exception would be if one of the scr?s inside the Timer-Base is breaking down while the engine is running. This can be found indexing the flywheel and checking the timing on all cylinders. If the readings are off, reverse the meter leads and retest to see if the readings are corrected.

Check the cranking RPM. A cranking speed less than 250-RPM will not allow the system to fire properly.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

When we popped the flywheel we did not see any loose or broken magnets. Everything looks really clean and in place. When we did one check for continuity the stator went clean to zero on an ohm meter. I believe that's a good thing? I will try some of the other checks. I have not hooked the engine up to a tach during cranking, but it gets good rpms going so I don't think that's an issue here - I can double check that but I doubt it.

Thanks for the posts.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Again, what pops out at me is that I get no more than 140VAC output from the stator on the brown/yellow wires connected. We had already tested spark with the rectifier disconnected and it did not fire. I will do more tests and follow up.

Thanks again!

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

What spark plugs are you using?

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Champion plugs, QL78YC I believe...I can go look later.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

That's fine. You can also use the QL77JC4's.

Describe your exact starting proceedure. Do you use the 4 step process?

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

I use (a known to work without problem) harness and keyswitch setup with good battery power hooked up to the engine. Using a 50:1 mixture from a small tank I prime the bulb well then I turn the switch to on and press down to choke for a couple of secs then I crank. On any other similar Johnson it fires immediately. This one turns and only sputters and coughs a smokey gas mixture (smells like gas). That's it. I move the throttle to give it more air and the result is pretty much the same.

Thanks again!

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Good system. After you pressurize the line hold the key in for an 6-8 count, then hit the starter. It almost sounds like new plugs might help, maybe not.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

An engine misfiring like that is usually spark plug related like dhadley suggests. The cover or inner terminal damaged. Faulty or crossed leads, loose plugs (under torqued), defective plugs (which you say are new though).
Timing also plays a factor in the misfire. Your timing could be off, damaged coils, arcing around ignition coils or in key switch, loose connections, leads grounding out or a faulty PP, charge coil or sensor coil.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Spark plugs and cables are brand new and we checked for spark outside the cylinders and there was no hesitation or missing of spark. Plugs well torqued and coils are well connected and lubed. Consistent spark on all 6. Timing checked out good and since all screws still have factory seal to avoid changes, I did not mess with that. Not a bad switch connection since we can completely bypass it and diconnect it with the same results.

My question remains the same...Is a 140VAC low for this stator during cranking? If not, could a power pack put out a consistent but weak charge to all six coils?

I will check the DVA output to see where I'm at there.

Thanks again!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Im not sure with the number you are providing. Disconnect the stator leads. Connect ohmmeter, low ohms scale, between the 2 yellow leads. If there is no reading the stator is open. Im not sure on you stator amperage so Im unsure of the scale that it should be between. Connect the ohmmeter high ohms scale between common engine ground and one stator yellow lead. No reading (infinity), and your stator should be ok.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

I was able to do these tests and None of the readings fell within the specs provided. Now, when I went to disconnect the battery cables, I felt the starter hot...hotter than what I believe to be normal. I will have to be sure of the cranking RPMs I'm getting before I move on.

Will lower cranking rpms cause all the readings from these tests to be low? I believe that to be so...I will make sure I have good cranking rpms.

Thanks again to all of you who have posted.

Check the stator and trigger resistance and DVA output as given below for each bank:

Wire Color: Check to Wire: Color Resistance: DVA Reading

Brown wire: Brown/Yellow wire: 900-1100 (35 amp): 150V or more Connected
Orange: Orange/Black :93-103 OEM :12-24V Connected
Orange: Orange/Black :45-55 CDI :12-24V Connected
White wire urple wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire :Blue wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire :Green wire: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire urple wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Blue wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Green wire 2nd connector: (a) :0.6V or more Connected
White wire: Black/White wire 2nd connector: 215-225 :Not Applicable

(a) Use a comparison reading as different brands of meters will give different readings. The typical range is 1M to 5M ohms. As long as you have approximately the same ohm reading on all six tests and the correct output with the DVA meter, the Timer-Base should be good. The exception would be if one of the scr’s inside the Timer-Base is breaking down while the engine is running. This can be found indexing the flywheel and checking the timing on all cylinders. If the readings are off, reverse the meter leads and retest to see if the readings are corrected.

Check the cranking RPM. A cranking speed less than 250-RPM will not allow the system to fire properly.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

The plan this weekend is to use a known to be good starter to crank it. I'll charge up the batteries all the way to cover that too. Hopefully that's it.

Again I want to thank those of you who take the time to post in these forums. I have found many answers here without doing a post myself.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Well, I verified that the starter I was using had problems. When I tried to start with the good starter, it almost fired but it pretty much had the same symptoms. The sputters felt stronger and louder than before but it would not fire on.

I didn't have time to redo all the electrical tests. I feel I'm running in circles here. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Is all of your wiring good, free of nicks, abrasions, wear. Connections shiny and clean, no rust, corrosion, etc.... 90 percent of these problems are wiring and connection related. Make those connections shine. The wiring is hard to diagnose since it corrodes from the inside out. You may have a short inline somewhere. Clean those connections and check the battery wiring as follows.

Testing the Positive Battery Cable to the Engine

1. Select the DC Volts position on the meter.
2. Connect the Red (Positive) lead on the meter to the positive battery POST.
3. Connect the Black (Negative) lead on the meter to the starter solenoid terminal where the positive battery cable is connected.
4. Using a remote start switch, activate the starter solenoid to spin the engine and observe the reading on the meter. A reading above 0.6V indicates a bad cable or bad connection.
(a) If the meter reads above 0.6V, move the Black lead on the meter to the positive battery cable terminal on the starter solenoid and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable connection is bad.
(b) If the meter still reads above 0.6V, move the Black lead on the meter to the positive battery cable terminal on the battery and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable is bad or undersized.
Service Note: A bad power connection to the ignition or battery charging system can be found by connecting the Black lead on the meter to the power connection of the ignition system or charging system; then working your way back to the battery positive post. At no time should you see a reading above 1V.

Testing the Negative Battery Cable to the Engine

1. Select the DC Volts position on the meter.
2. Connect the Black (Negative) lead on the meter to the negative battery POST.
3. Connect the Red (Positive) lead on the meter to the engine block where the negative battery cable is connected.
4. Using a remote start switch, activate the starter solenoid to spin the engine and observe the reading on the meter. A reading above 0.6V is an indicator of a bad cable or bad connection.
(a) If the meter reads above 0.6V, move the Red lead on the meter to the negative battery cable terminal on the engine block and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable connection is bad.
(b) If the meter still reads above 0.6V, move the Red lead on the meter to the negative battery cable terminal on the battery and retest. If the reading drops to below 0.6V, the cable is bad or undersized.

A bad ground connection to the ignition and battery charging system can be found by connecting the Red lead on the meter to the ground connection of the ignition or battery charging system; then working your way back to the battery negative post. At no time should you see a reading above 1V.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

I have good cables and connections that have been tested and are working on other motors being fired up. Battery power is really good. I hope there's somewhere else to go here...

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

Well, I verified that the starter I was using had problems. When I tried to start with the good starter, it almost fired but it pretty much had the same symptoms. The sputters felt stronger and louder than before but it would not fire on.

I didn't have time to redo all the electrical tests. I feel I'm running in circles here. Any help will be appreciated.

Did you try the starting method Dhadley recommended, I believe it's a little different than what you mentioned.

Good system. After you pressurize the line hold the key in for an 6-8 count, then hit the starter. ...

That method made a huge differrnce for my engine.

 

[GWDolphin25]

Re: 1999 Johnson 225 starting problem

I let it prime good and it even acted like it was gonna fire up for a sec here and there but no luck. Basically the result is the same but with noticeably louder pops that at times seem to sequence up but nothing.

Thanks again for all your input. Still wondering...and the motor sits.