Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

[MercFan]

This engine belongs to a single mom about 200 miles from my location. For those with an atlas, she's in Bloemfontein, South Africa. I'm in Klerksdorp, South Africa. Her dad and brother are also too far away to help and have no marine engine knowledge. There are a couple of guys close to her that are willing to help. She herself sounds excited and looking forward to the challenge.

Here's the pics that she sent me so far of the engine. I have tried to identify some of the parts for her, to make our communication easier. I myself have a couple of questions for you guys. I left the photo names as she sent them to me, so we all refer to things on the same photo.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/engineID.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/choke.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/starter.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/sparkplug.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/sparkplug1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/sparkplug2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/alternator.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/alternator1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/alternator2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/fuses1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/fuses2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/Mercfan/Chrysler/fuses3.jpg

The alternator she is refering to is the distributor as can be seen.
The fuses she is refering to is the connection block for the wiring harnass.

Here's how I'm thinking to tackle the problem:
1) Compression test
2) New plugs. What would the proper NGK's be for this engine?
3) New plug tops (5k ohm tops). Are those plug wires the normal copper ones? Then I can use the standard plug tops that screw into the wire? Can she just buy new plug wire or is there some special crimp on the wire at the distributor end?
4) Sand paper rotor and 4 plug contacts to clean
5) Does this engine use standard points ignition? If so, replace condensor? Lightly sand paper points?
6) Verify needle and seats for correct operation
7) Link and sync
8) Tidy up wiring and redo all crimps at connection block. (This will probably be subcontracted to an auto electrician)
9) Verify electric choke operation.
10) Should we be unable to fins fuel pump rebuild kits, I'll have her install a electric diaphragm pump.
11) Decarb
12) Check float levels. (If anyone has a picture of the links around the needle and how they should be adjusted, and what the fuel level should be in the chamber with or without floats. Will be greatly appreciated.
13) Verify correct main jet size.
14) Drain and replace LU oil
15) Water pump impeller replacement

I have some questions:
1) I see what looks like a water seperator filter. Is the fuel pump part of that casing? Does the engine only have 1 fuel pump?
2) Is there and online parts breakdown available for this engine? What year is this engine? Does it have any common problems?
3) Does this engine have a tell tale?
4) I see a sender unit at the top of the block, with an orange wire running from it? Is this water pressure or water temp? Could I tee in a tell tale at that point?
5) Does this engine have a thermostat?
6) What compression figures should I be expecting?
7) It looks like the engine caught fire at some point. Very black around the one sparkplug, and melted wiring. Anything in particular I can look out for?
8) Does this choke have a manual override?
9) How does one engage the choke electrically? Should she look for a seperate button on her dash? Or does she push the key in?
10) In order to get a proper compression reading, should I have her squirt some premix into each cylinder beforehand?
11) What should the jetting be at 4000ft?
12) Does anyone have a link & sync procedure for this engine please?
13) Is this engine also unregulated like my 1970 Merc 1150?
14) Recommended basic tools? Spanners, feeler gauge, timing light, AVO?
15) Any advice you can give will be most appreciated

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489

OK, I've also started to search for online parts diagrams. I found some at Crowly Marine. I use the "Search by Model and Serial Range". Then select "Chrysler". They list 5 105s (1976, 77, 78, 82, 83). Problem is I can't find a 1057HA. Which one of the other model numbers listed there is the closest? I'm currently looking at the 1055HA and 1057H8H and comparing that to the photos.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

1057HA is from 1970. Most parts sites only go back to 1976 for parts. The 1055HA is probably your best bet for parts cross reference. You can go to chrysler crew and download a specific parts manual for that and then cross refererence the parts to either mercruiser dot com or doug russell site.

1 Only one fuel pump. Uses a sierra 18-7806 fuel pump rebuild kit
2 not for a 1970. Go to mercruiser dot com or doug russell
3 very basic telltale. Water is more like a dribble then a stream
4 Orange wire if for a heat sensor
5 It should have a thermostat
6 probably around 125 psi.
7?? spark test and compression test
8 no on the manual over ride. Choke is engaged by pushing the key in
9 Push key in
10No. You want to do compression first then try squirting some 2 stroke oil and repeat to see if you have a problem. Numbers should stay the same if cylinders are good.
11?
12 link and sync is pretty detailed and in the manual. Chrysler crew has service manuals for download. I dont know if they do international exchange though.
1

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Thanks very much eurolava!

I've done a bit of reading so I found the proper size main jet for the engine. And thanks for the info on the thermostat.
I'll have her get an auto electrician to get the choke push key sorted as well. She did contact me today and promised to get the compression test done asap.
I also see that the engine has solid state ignition, so I don't have to worry about points.
I'm going to pop over to the Chrystler Crew and get her to get that manual asap.

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Just 2 questions that got lost.
1) The spark plug leads on this engine. Does it have a special crimp-on fitting that attaches to the distributor cap (Like the Mercs of the same era)? Or is it standard automotive type? Copper lead and both the distributor and plug caps have threaded brass studs that thread into the copper lead on both ends?

2) What would the modern day NGK spark plug be for this engine?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

If the engine has the square red selenium rectifier near the starter, then bolted on the exhaust cover will be a trip regulator. You will see the "trip" transistor on the aluminum regulator case. If it has the finned Motorola regulator, then it is electronically voltage regulated.

The distributor cap is a two (actually three) piece assembly held together by two screws on either side of the center wire terminal. In between the cover and cap is a rubber membrane that holds in and seals the wires. The wires push onto brass pointed terminals in the cap. There will be eight of them. Four will have copper flashing inside the cap running from the terminal to the edge of the cap. These ground those particular terminals and no wires are attached to these terminals. This is part of the explosion proof design. When you remove the distributor cap, note the hole in the rim and matching pin on the dist. body This positively locates the cap in the proper position. Before you remove the plug wires, note the position of #1234. Firing order is 1, 3, 2, 4. Top cylinder is #1. The wire from the coil to the distributor uses standard crimp wire ends.

Push the new wires through the distributor cover cap, then through the rubber membrane and leave about 1/4 inch (8-10 mm) or more protruding. the ends should have been cut square. use regular stranded copper plug wire--not resistor wire or carbon core wire. Line up the ends of the wires with the proper terminal points and squeeze the whole assembly together, pushing the wire ends well onto the terminal points. Secure with the two screws.

Although the engine is electronic ignition, the 1970 should have signal points inside the distributor. These points should be set to .010 inch gap. I forget what mm that is. Improper gap changes the timing. Engine will run, but other settings change making proper setrting difficult. So, get it right. There is no capacitor. If by some chance it has the electric eye electronic distributor, there is no adjustment.

NGK BUH preferred or BUHX second choice. BUHX is a resistor plug and not best choice for this engine, but it will work and not damage engine.

New engine should have compression of about 125-140 PSI. Old engine --if it is over 100 don't worry as long as all cylinders are equal.

Finally got to see the photos. I don't see the trip regulator. It may be behind the seleniun rectifier or it may have been removed. There should be a short red wire from the rectifier to it if it is still there. And you have a points signaled distributor. Note the bent metal piece and the switch on the body of the distributor. This is the neutral interlock and prevents starting the engine while in gear.

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Thanks Frank!
It's nice to now finally have all the names for all the electrical components and their function.
I zoomed in on the photo that shows the big square red box. On the photo I can see a short red wire running to the back of the box. I can barely make out a connection point there as well. So I'm guessing that's the trip regulator. I'll verify this by having her check the voltage though the low rev range. If it does give trouble I'll go straight to the normal 25amp rectifier from radio shack, the small 1in. square one, and ditch the regulator.

I see the neutral interlock you spoke about.

Just one more component I see is below the connection block. A small aluminium dome type thing. This appears to be:
57 F510460 CIRCUIT BREAKER
Any clues as to it's function? Is it like a resetable fuse? I'm going to guess that it's normally closed and a continuity test should show that current is able to flow through it, unless it's in a "tripped" state?

Below the neutral interlock I see a white wire (with, looks like a blue stripe) connected to the distributor. That seems to be going to the main ignition coil. That must be connected to the points inside the distributor.

The other white wire from the coil looks to go straight to the connection block and is only a pulse signal for a tach.

Then the black is only earth.

The latest update from her is that she'll be doing the compression test this afternoon (Wednesday) and sending me the figures in the morning (Thursday). In an attempt to get the engine started about 2 weeks ago she may have fried the starter motor though. I sure hope not. That'll put us back a while while she gets that recoiled.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

I made the misteke of being in a hurry and not looking at all the photos. You said the engine was electronic ignition; It is not -- it is standard coil and points ignition.
So: inside the distributor there will be a set of points and a capacitor. This engine is run just like an old car. Set the points to .010 as I said before. there should be a BLUE wire running from the terminal block to the + terminal of the coil, and the white with black stripe goes from the other side of the coil to the points. Blue from the ignition switch should connect to the blue terminal on the engine. This supplies power to the coil when the ignition switch is on. Blue wire at the ignition switch should be attached to the "I" terminal and red wire to the "B" terminal. If you have a black wire on the + terminal of the coil, it still should connect to the blue wire at the terminal block. With the ignition switch on, blue supplies power to the coil when the points are closed. When the points open, current stops flowing, the magnetic field collapses, and the coil fires a spark. Because this engine uses a standard coil, the spark is only about 10,000 volts. This is not enough to reliably fire a surface gap plug like an NGK BUH or BUHX --especially at start. You should use a standard bent electrode plug like AC M42K or NGK B8S. Even though I think--not sure mind you-- that the factory recommends the L20V

The "M" terminals on the ignition switch are not used. Be careful! These two terminals have no continuity when the switch is on and continuity when the switch is off. These are used to stop magneto ignition engines and newer Prestolite electronic systems

The silver can at the bottom of the terminal board on the engine is a circuit breaker. It opens when hot and resets when cool. There is no manual reset button.

If you replace the coil, be sure to use a 12 volt coil because there is no dropping resistor. (Most auto coils are 9 volt with a dropping resistor on the firewall. This is because when you crank over an auto engine, the battery voltage drops to 9 volts. The dropping resistor is bypassed during cranking, thus the coil gets full design voltage at start conditions.)

You are correct: the other white wire is tach signal. Orange wire is overheat signal. Power comes from the "I" terminal to the light or buzzer, the other wire of the light or buzzer goes to orangewire, through the terminal on the engine, to the overheat button. If you have an actual temp sender, the gauge is connected the same way. Thus the gauge or overheat indicator only works with the ignition key on.

I really don't like the look of that head. At the very least, pull the plugs and with a pencil beam check the piston condition. It would be better to actually pull the head just to know-- Of course, if there was major damage, there would be very low to no compression on the affected pistons.

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Thanks again for the info Frank! I did ask her to send me the name and number of the plugs that are currently in there. According to the NGK site, as listed below, 1968-1974 Chrysler 105's all used the semi-surface gap plug BUHW. It's not the X-resistor plug you warned me about. The W only denotes titanium electrode luckily. The '75-'76 engines use the BUHX, and the '66-'67 engines use a BR6S.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/watercraft/make.asp?table=toutboard
But I agree that the coil+points ignitions battle a bit with surface gap plugs. I remember that from my dad's old 196x Mercs as well.

But if all goes well she'll send me the compression figures this morning, so then we'll know where we stand. She did say that they did get the engine started once after she had some mechanic-type guys fiddle with it. So I'm thinking that things like idling mixture might be totally out of whack.

The big thing to me is just to encourage her a bit by just getting the engine started easily. They used their hands to choke it cause they didn't know about the key-push. I'm also waiting for verification that the key-push-choke actually works.

after that I can go through the whole engine with her motivated, and willing to spend a couple of bucks on it. Then we'll buy a service manual, do a link & sync, check float levels etc.

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Just an update:
She couldn't do the compression test because she fried the starter motor. She's taking that to an auto electrician and then I'll plan to make a trip down there after she got a manual as well.

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Need info please:
She's looking into getting a new starter motor.
I'm currently getting quotes from various local sources.
Part number for the entire starter motor is FK616955. This motor was used all the way to the last Chryslers around 1984.
I see that even the modernish Force motors (Force 150hp (1994)) use a starter motor with number FK616955-1
Does anyone know what the -1 is different from the original? Is it retrofittable? Is the orginal number only for those that want the original component, but the new part will fit if you don't worry about originality?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

ALL starter motors from ALL 3 and 4 cylinder engines up to say mid '90s are interchangeable. So if you could find a junk 75, 85, 90, 105, 120, 125 etc. with a useable starter, it will fit.

The older starters had a copper wound field coil which was energised at the same time as the armature. Th newer motors have two permanent magnet fields and only the armature is energised. There are also two different motors: Prestolite and Bosch. Prestolite has brushes on the side of the commutator and Bosch has them on the bottom. High output motors have 4 brushes others have 2.

All this doesn't matter; all have the same mounting, bendix, pinion, and electrical terminal so all are interchangeable on the 105.

 

[MercFan]

Re: Chrysler 105 Ser#3489 (Model 1057HA)

Thanks for the info Frank!