Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

[JRJ]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

"De law am de law."

I don't consider trying to get away with knowingly breaking the law a game, and I don't consider creative ways of catching lawbreakers "unsporting".

What I do consider "unsporting", or more correctly unethical, is using unreliable methods which accuse some incorrectly.

Before radar, speeding and apprehending were sporting. Very few speed cops now days that actually have worked traffic without radar, airplanes, unmarked cars etc. I have to admit, now days, I drive the limit.

 

[Jerico]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Around here a red light is a "suggestion". Almost all of the deaths in car accidents involve someone running a red light. I don't like the cameras, but the city has started putting them up. From what our local paper has published each camera has to issue around 100 tickets a month to pay for them. The only time I worry about them is even though I'm cautious, driving a 7000 pound van pulling a 4000 pound boat quick stops are not an option...

 

[MikDee]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

JB, I'm with ya all the way man if ya break the law ya need to pay the bill fer it plain and simple. If you are incorrectly accused be darn sure you are innocent before going to court. Because some of the courts add to the penalty if you are found guilty after pleading innocent and rightly so.



MikDee wrote
"On the interstate, it never seems to fail, that if I'm in the passing lane doing like 65-75, struggling to pass a semi, and he plainly see's me in his mirror, he jumps out right in front of me to pass! and I lose any momentum I had built up or is it just me, or my vehicle"



What is the posted speed limit on this interstate highway? Not that it really matters because the guy with the (biggest vehicle always has the right of way) the reason i say this is ya can't whip a Peterbuilt with a VW. It's all about staying alive. Now you also have to take in account that the Truck drivers are also useing momentum to climb the next hill. And this is how he makes a living so after watching you in his mirror for a while he decides he would rather be out front and not have contend with a slower vehicle. I've been on both sides of this thing and it ain't no fun in either position.

Now about the cameras they don't bother me one way or the other I can take'um or leave'um.

Weldor, On a point here, If a truck driver can see in his mirror I've kicked down, and am accelerating to pass him, I don't dilly, dally, in anyone's blind spot, Why jump in front of me? I thought these guys were supposed to be extra courteous? I respect them, and try to avoid them at all costs, they are much bigger or heavier then anything I drive! but I never hesitate to either flash them on to pass, or pass them quickly, depending on road conditions. Last time out on an interstate drive, I had one almost take me out at 70+mph!,,, But it was clear he didn't see me, My wife, & I were glad, I was able to take immediate action to avoid an accident.

I just feel you're a sittin duck when camera's are used, and chances are the average joe who occasionally, accidently, messes up, is gonna be the one to get nabbed most of the time, not the true offenders (they'll just keep doing what they do), and lets say they're in the minority,,, who's gonna pay? the majority of course, do the math.

 

[DJ]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Around here a red light is a "suggestion". Almost all of the deaths in car accidents involve someone running a red light. I don't like the cameras, but the city has started putting them up. From what our local paper has published each camera has to issue around 100 tickets a month to pay for them. The only time I worry about them is even though I'm cautious, driving a 7000 pound van pulling a 4000 pound boat quick stops are not an option...

Around here-Phoenix, the illegals run lights and then the survivors "bail out" and run every direction. The vehicle is left with only the seriously injured left and they ain't talking. They don't have to. Don't ask why.

"Responsible citizens" get hung with the trajedy.

 

[Weldor]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

I thought these guys were supposed to be extra courteous?

You'll have that, not all drivers are the same or any other professional type for that matter. Some of these guys are real jerks and could care less about you and your family.

Last time out on an interstate drive, I had one almost take me out at 70+mph!,,, But it was clear he didn't see me, My wife, & I were glad, I was able to take immediate action to avoid an accident.

I'm glad that you avoided being in the news, because you already knew what I stated before about the size of the vehicle.

 

[kmk_7110]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

During my time in drivers ed, the instructor said that a former student was failed during taking a road test for running a yellow. The reason is that they should have predicted that the light was about to change by noticing that it was on for a while. Its a stupid yet legitimate reason IMHO.

 

[Ezrider_92356]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

They should only ticket people on motorcycles..... ​

thats about the stupidest thing iv ever heard. i dont know any motorcyclist that is not more cautious than somone thats never ridin a motorcycle and if they arnt they normaly dont live very long. when you ride a motorcycle you are VERY aware of your surrounding's. there may be some idiot teen agers on crotch rockets that think there invincible. on a motorcycle you have no protection like you do in a car and people DO NOT SEE YOU. you have to anticapte what every car might can or will do and leave yourself a way out. if you dont ride like that you dont live long. if you see a bike that seems to come out of no where its cause your not looking hard enough....ok im done with my rant now

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

EZ> Haut was just being himself and meant no harm, it was just sarcasm I'm sure. You haven't been around long enough to know that some member of DC can't be taken seriously all the time.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

EZ> Haut was just being himself and meant no harm, it was just sarcasm I'm sure. You haven't been around long enough to know that some member of DC can't be taken seriously all the time.

Yep! That was for WITF....
But I see plenty of irresponsible people on bikes around these parts.....
A guy died a block away from my house several months ago & his girlfriend & the driver of the car he T boned @ 80+ left the scene in critical condition......
I was one of the first at the scene, NOT pretty.....

 

[QC]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

The founder of our company, an 80 YO+, mega-super-duper engineer, Dr. type dude, fought the City of San Diego about six years ago on red-light cameras and won. He proved scientifically in court that timing of the lights throughout the city was either set to enhance revenues or actually decreased safety (braking too hard), or both. He proved with tables and charts and stuff that it was impossible to stop safely and be within the timing allowed with the cameras once a yellow light had been displayed.

Here is his defense doc . . . Pretty cool http://www.highwayrobbery.net/TickRedCamArmeyrlcdocscap-c.pdf

 

[Weldor]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

QC, that guy was on a Mission fer sure because I know he didn't go through all that just to get out of a ticket/fine.

 

[QC]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

He just believed it was the right thing to do. He is semi-retired, but John doesn't do anything willy nilly. Great mentor, but there is no way I can keep up with him. Pretty amazing guy. Used to be the President of SAE, VP of Engine Development at Cummins, and before that White Motors. Scout leader etc, and I believe he is still active with them . . . I see him about twice a year, hearing is going, but he is still sharp as a tack

 

[byacey]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Here in Edmonton they have had the red light cameras for awhile now. Rear end collisions have increased exponentially since they started using the cameras. People now upon seeing a yellow light will violently lock up their brakes to avoid entering the intersection, while the people behind caught by surprise have very little reaction time to stop. The idiot transportation people in Edmonton also had the moronic idea of shortening the yellow light phase to 2 seconds, also creating more accidents. In my opinion this is just plain stupidity.

Photo radar has also been a scandalous affair here since some city administrators got what was essentially a bribe to give the contract for the photo radar operation to an American firm based out of Denver, if I recall correctly.
The photo radar does nothing to make the roads safer; I have seen drivers exceeding the speed limit by at least 30MPH, slow down while passing the camera vehicle only to resume the excessive rate of speed after passing out of camera range. As well, as someone else mentioned, they don't catch the people speeding through school zones, residential roadways, parking lots, etc. where actual lives are being endangered - they go for the easy kill, cash cow on the freeways and major thorough fares. This is nothing more than a tax disguised as law enforcement. Ironically there aren't any demerits issued for such tickets to the driver or owner of the vehicle; just a monetary fine. I guess if a person is wealthy here, it's perfectly fine to speed as long as you pay the tickets that come in the mail.

 

[DJ]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

The founder of our company, an 80 YO+, mega-super-duper engineer, Dr. type dude, fought the City of San Diego about six years ago on red-light cameras and won. He proved scientifically in court that timing of the lights throughout the city was either set to enhance revenues or actually decreased safety (braking too hard), or both. He proved with tables and charts and stuff that it was impossible to stop safely and be within the timing allowed with the cameras once a yellow light had been displayed.

Here is his defense doc . . . Pretty cool http://www.highwayrobbery.net/TickRedCamArmeyrlcdocscap-c.pdf

Great! Unfortunetaley it didn't take amongst copycat politicians.

San Diego is a stronghold, within, CA.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

My city has a high accident rate and the cameras and hidden vans were used for several years. The problem was the money gained in fines was promised to go to our schools and it didnt so a law suit stoped it. Anything to reduce speed (we have thousands of cars coming in everyday from other countys and they are in a hurry and speed). The statement that speed doesnt kill doesnt address the fact THAT MOST FATAL ACCIDENTS INVOLVE SPEED. No matter how good of a driver you are and how modern your car is speeding increases the odds of you being in a fatal accident,a fact. I say use the cameras if it slows people down and they can if used in the proper places.

 

[Fish n Geer]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Like anything else there is good and bad to everything.But if it helps detour some of the red light running its worth it.As one posted others running into someone stopping fast at a light.And the other guy running into them?Well thats on them! Gotta have your vehicle under control at all times.People just are in too much of a hurry.Thats what causes most of the problems.Dont see that changing anytime soon either.

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

To me it is very simple. I have the right to face my accuser. You can not face a camera and ask it questions (IE how close to the intersection was I? What was traffic like at the intersection? When was the last time the RADAR was calibrated? When did you last go through a refresher course on RADAR operation?) I also agree that they never seem to put them in places that need them (IE school zones, neighbour hoods). Of course I also disagree that we are forced to have things like ABS, Traction Control, Air Bags, Seat belts and child restraints. It should be my choice as to whether or not I use these things. It seems like the more of these "safety" items are mandated to be on our vehicles, the dumber drivers get. The only thing that truly happens is that car prices go up. No one seems to be able to really drive anymore. Drivers seem to get dumber and dumber everyday. Driving used to be fun, now it is a chore and it drives me nuts. Yes I used to speed, but I always carefully picked when I did and it was never in school zones, neighbour hoods or in town and I always use my seat belt and my daughter is always in her child seat. Every time I get a new car I take it out to a large parking lot the first time that it rains or snows and try to break it loose so that I know how it handles under various conditions. This has saved my bacon in several emergency and or inclimate situations. Open roads were awesome... It seems like cities have gotten to where they only care about the money, not fixing the real problems. Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[beerrun]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

I went to racing school in Connecticut because I love driving.I was out of control on the road. I had flipped a couple of cars and I was going to hurt myself or somebody else(I was 18).I wanted to learn to do it the right way instead of just playing NASCAR. Amazingly, what it did was slow me down on the road. When you realize how important flaggers are on the track and you do not have them on the road its a bit of a wake up call. IMHO drivers ed as we have it today is a joke. There is absolutely no time spent on car control. Kids do not know how long thier braking distance is, they do not know how to control a car in the rain, in the snow or in a skid on dry roads.They do not know how to drive through a bend in the road. Most of them cannot even downshift.They become adults, "i've been driving for 20 yrs." and they still do not know how to drive. A friend of mine is 42 yrs.old and has no understanding of lane changing, using directionals, passing lanes or other peoples blind spots.She cannot parallel park or back up with any confidence. Its terrifying. Drivers ed spends more time on DUI and BAC which may help 5% of the people taking the course. Car control would help 100% of the people, and its fun to learn. Before people know it they're on top of a yellow light and by then they need to lock em up in order to stop.
As fars motorcycles go, DEFENSIVE is the key word. People do not see us. Thier eyes and brains have not been trained to look and see such a small vehicle. People are always shocked when they drive over a cycler..."They came out of nowhere"!...No they didnt, your eyes just scanned right over them. We are fettered with looking out for ourselves. How much room do you need to stop your bike? At high speeds how does that distance change? That should be in the back of our minds at all times. Nobody sees us. But I digress.
The cameras I believe are unnecessary. There should be better things that tax payer dollars can be spent on like proper driving courses that will help all drivers and communities...just my 2 cents.

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Very well said Beerrun. I agree completely. I forgot to mention what I think about drivers ed., I never went through it, but I know lots of people that have and when we talk about it I am aghast at what they don't learn. The friend that taught me to drive taught me how to do sudden stops, control skids, up and down shift, and set my mirrors correctly among other things. From what I have heard they don't teach any of that now and it is pathetic. To me the two scariest words in the english language are student driver. I avoid cars with that on them at all costs.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Your views on redlight and speed cameras...

Although there aren't many here that are for it, just in case you actually think they increase safety, here is a gov't sponsored study on red light cameras. In one jurisdiction side impacts went down 34 percent. Fantastic right? Except that in the same jurisdiction, rear end collisions went up 38 percent!!!!

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/05049/

Is that increasing safety?

They've just recently ruled speeding a civil violation in our city, so the right to confront one's accuser goes out the window. It had been a criminal violation, but the city redid the ordinance so people couldn't fight the tickets.

Haut, not sure if you've ever been a rider, but EZrider was dead on accurate. Motorcycle riders are statistically some of the safest drivers on the road, their lives depend on it. But, only having 2 wheels limits our abilities in some ways. One of them is to stop. Also, if I do manage to stop quickly without ending up on my rear there is a good chance that they guy behind me might run into me.

There are no such things as fender benders on motorcycles.