My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

[Hashi]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Hi Sam,

Welcome to iBoats.

I'm also in the SF Bay Area and am fairly new to this forum, as well. For the SF Bay you may want to get the maximum hp recommended by the manufacture. The swells and white caps can get pretty hairy out there and you'll probably want to have the extra hp for those just in case purposes. You can always power down anyways.

If you want to get an estimate to repair your current motor, try SF Boat Works or Helmut's Marine Service in San Rafael. If they don't service Johnson's, I'm sure one of them will refer you elsewhere. Good luck and maybe I'll see you out there.

Rich

 

[sam7684]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Thank you, everyone for writing. Some of you said that I may be getting blown off by the people at the boat shop. Some of you suggested going to a place called "The Outboard Shop". That's exactly where I took it.

I'm attaching some photos that might help...

It leaks oil. see?

Does everyone still think i'm getting shafted with this motor? (no pun intended)

 

[sam7684]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Did you run the motor without any water running thru it by via of the muffs or a water tank? A lot of newbies make that error. If you did that, you probably need to not do anything further and let us know.

For how long did you have the motor?

If you are not the only owner do you have any information as far as any work done on it?

When was the last time the water pump was rebuild?

If you can provide more info other that it dont start. Like do you hear or heard any detonations, any weird noise, etc...

question #1: I definetaly did that right!

question #2: i just bought the boat.

question #3: i have no idea the last time the water pump was rebuilt.

question #4: no weird noises. It just cranks, cranks, cranks but won't turn over. eventually the battery runs down and won't crank anymore...

 

[guy74]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

It looks like the shop did a leakdown test. I've never used that kind of a test, so I don't know how to interpret the results. If you have access to a compression gauge, you might want to do a compression test yourself and post the results. Why are the plug wires off in the pictures? I dont see anything leaking at the prop that isn't normal, just looks like the oil residue that leaks out down there.

 

[sam7684]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Why are the plug wires off in the pictures?

I don't know. They must have done that. Before I took the vessel in, I replaced the spark plugs and battery.

 

[guy74]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

If you decide that the motor is junk, I would recomend at least that much horsepower to go back on it. I had a 1988 60hp johnson on the V-156 I have, it was alot of fun. I wouldn't want to go with any less power, that 60hp would've been as big as the older 70hp. It's even more fun with the new motor, (refer to my signature) Too bad your so far away or I could set you up with the 60hp thats on the stand in my shop.

 

[Hardcore]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

as to the original question a 9hp is too small. the rule of thumb is that it has to be able to plane otherwise to most people the boat is useless. that boat is going to require at least 50hp maybe more as it is relatively heavy. of course you could put around fine with anything down to around 6hp but its not going to perform worth a damn.

also keep in mind that 2 strokes leak oil into the exhaust so oil leaks like that are normal usually. they leak oil out of the cylinders by design thats what lubes the bottom end. althopugh you might have a lower unit leak. if the oil mixes with water (white) it may be gear oil. black oil is exhaust.

 

[Hashi]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Are you willing to go as far north as Sacramento and south to San Jose for used motors? I just checked craigslist and there are a few motors that might be of interest to you. You might want to schedule a few appointments.

 

[Nandy]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

The shop says this it is not worth fixing because after they are done charging you for parts and labor it will be enough to buy another motor or it will be more money than what the motor is worth. HOWEVER, take the shop out of the picture and the bill will be substantially smaller if you do it yourself. Is the shop lying to you? Not necessarily and it might not be their intentions. I would say is that having that shop or any shop fixing the motor might be costly prohibitive.

The leak test is showing that your cylinders 1 and 3 are not sealing properly. Researching the test it shows that a 5 to 10 percent is great and some still consider 20 percent loss acceptable, anything over that indicates problems. That means that your cylinder 1 is not optimum, but is acceptable however cylinder 3 had problems.
The question is why a motor that was working right suddenly loose cylinder pressure. Maybe the impeller in your water pump was not working properly and the motor overheated. If the unit was ran at too high RPM the motor could have gone in a thermal runaway. It will be hard to tell unless you open the unit (don’t open the motor until you do some testing as advised before).

If your cylinders are not sealing properly it could be due to a few things. Either worn out rings, stuck rings, scratched cylinder walls, burnt cylinder head gasket or a combination of all of the above. There are more reasons, but those that I mention could be fixed by honing the cylinder walls and an oversize ring kit and a new cylinder head gasket. That is not more than 200.00 including the gaskets needed. I don’t think that you motor could have enough damage on it that fixing it yourself will make the cost prohibitive. Do the tests and we will give you an idea where to go next. If the motor needs to be open and it is found to have extensive damage then you spent time on it but learned in the process. If they would have finished the test they could have gave you a better idea of what is wrong with it but they stopped the test.

I guess my advice is, fix the motor before you go buying another motor. Not only it could be cheaper, it will then give you the opportunity to make the best of this motor.

 

[oops!]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

sam
that is a t-156. (thanks for the picks)
forget a low hp motor.
at least a 70.
a little one will wash you up on the rocks!
take the boating course and pick the motor or rebuild.
dont try a 25. absolute minimum 50hp!!! your passengers lives may depend on it!

welcome to i boats
and have fun

 

[guy74]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

OOPS!,
FYI in 1973 that boat was call a V 156, it wasn't till later in the 70's that it's model numberchanged to T 156. I second your advice on motor size.

Brian

 

[sam7684]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

OK. Thanks everyone. Sounds like this is the general consensus:

Fix the motor myself. If I can't fix it, replace it with at least a 50HP.

If anyone has anything else, I'd love to hear it. you guys rock on this forum!

 

[stevens]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Yes, one last thing; there are some incredibly knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. Let them walk you through the diagnostics and repairs step-by-step. You'll learn, you'll make some internet friends, and you may save yourself some money.

 

[oops!]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

guy thanks for that.
my family owned one with a jhonson 70
we must have bought it just after they changed.
the v was for the v hull
and t for the tri.
man we caught a lot of fish in that boat!
oops

 

[mikesea]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

You heard it before,but.You say you can work on cars.That qualifies you to work on your outboard.The 3cyl engine you got was a great engine.tHE BLACK CRAP LEAKING IS YOUR EXHUST,THE EXHUST EXPELLED THROUGH THE PROP,sorry hit cap button.Borrow a screw in type compression guage,though its not a bad tool to have in a toolbox,bought cheap at local auto stores.You can make a spark tester,you want your spark to jump about 7/16 gap.You can buy a cheap one.So if your comp.and spark are good,the carbs are easily rebuildable,kits are sold on this site for ease.When rebuilding a carb,you want to soak in solution that can be bought at local auto stores,after soaking,I like to use garden hose (messy and wet)assuring to get through all little passages,get a can of carb spray and using the red tube blow through all passages,your eng.doesnt have oil injection so its simpler,the fuel pump is easy to replace,or rebuild,I just buy new,the impeller is in lower unit,should be replaced each yr with new gear oil too,oil drained by removing the 2 SLOTTED large head screws,drain on bottom,buy tubes of gear oil ,push into bottom hole til flows out top,replace top screw,then bottom,under the bottom carb is the shift linkage screw3/8 head ,remove it and mounting bolts to remove lower unit,4 7/16 screws hold plastic pump housing exposing impeller.Bottom line,I dont know what test the guy did for your comp.reading,but sounds like a leak down that is done on auto engines,I am told that is not a good test for outboards,if your comp is good,and the readings about the same 15 lbs differance is ok,dont know your exact comp spec.but if 90-125 all about same your good,you do have the older style electronics,but its ok,parts still avail,dont know if you have elec.trim and tilt,if not less to worry about,but not a concern if u do.If I were u,I would test the comp.spark,if good and eng,runs poorly,you likely have carbs that need a good cleaning and rebuilding,give that motor good comp,spark and fuel,your good to go,just because its dated ,dont make it bad,some dont like working on old,especially if stuck bolts,corroded etc.as for another eng,i say nothing smaller than 50 hp,stick to evinrude or johnson and your cables and controls will work as long as the replacement isnt much older,the older engines have different harnesses,dont be afraid to work on the engine,your only concern is stuck bolts,the rest you will find all the help u need on the johnson/evinrude forum,good luck

 

[Nandy]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

Fix the motor myself. If I can't fix it, replace it with at least a 50HP.

Horrahh! Let it have it! Nothing better than heat and an impact tool (properly calibrated for the screw size/type) for them stuck bolts. If you dont have an impact tool then heat and well applied "intelligent" brute force will do!
Get the book for the motor, it will help so much. What is not covered or not well explained in the book could be supplemented here. Just ask and have patience, someone will help.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

agree do you own compression and spark test. read this

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=207285

 

[mickjetblue]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

I ran a 17' Glasstron with a 90hp Merc, and the boat was a deep v hull.
It ran great with the 90hp, although it was at its best under almost
full throttle. Smooth humming, and most of the boat was out of the water.

If you are boating in a bay, you will be running waves, and your tri-hull
is going to take a pounding often. Best way to avoid the pounding, and
make sure you have sufficient power and speed is to use power, like a 90hp.
You will need a good high plane to ride smoothly in waves.
Great that you're not giving up. Happy boating!

 

[Whoopbass]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

I have a 1974 50 hp johnson loop charged that I might sell. Could probably deliver it as well.
I bought it from an oil clean up business that said it was used for one job and then taken off the boat and stored. Said it only had 2 hours on it.
It might have been ran a little more then that but not much.
Cosmetically it looks very good. I fired it up a couple days ago and it runs like new. The cylinders have 155# of compression. Looks new under the cowel as well.
I was going to put it on my 17' Tracker bass boat but i'm not sure now since the motor thats on it is close to running good.

Anybody know what this outboard is worth? I gave $800 for it which is a couple hundred more then well used 50 hp outboards were selling for.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: My outboard died. What should I replace it with?

I looked at both the pics you have of your motor and the service receipt. Your motor is not a 1972 70hp. If it were a '72 it would have to be an electric shift 65hp. Your motor is a mechanical shift so that's out. By the model number shown on the service ticket (J75EL76R) it would be a 1976 75hp, although the shop actually has the model number slightly wrong - it should read J76ELR76 ... not 76R. If the data plate is still on the motor, you can check this just to verify the year.

The reason why they are telling you that it is not worth repairing is that you have a 20% blow-by in the top cylinder and a 40% loss in the bottom cylinder. From their standpoint as a shop, it is not economically feasible to rebuild the motor. Most OMC dealers have shop rates of about $70 an hour these days. In the Bay Area, I would expect that to be even more. What they are telling you is not to sink a bunch of money is a 32 year old engine. That does not rule out slapping another powerhead on it though. If either you or they can find one in good shape, you can turn a prohibitively expensive repair job into something more reasonable. Also, assuming that they are not feeding you a line about the cylinder leakage, the invoice that they gave you is very reasonable - $49 to even look at a motor is about as cheap as it gets.

I agree with the others about minimum engine size to a degree. I don't think you need 70 - 75 hp on this boat but I wouldn't go to a 9.9 hp or 15 hp either. A 25 hp to 35 hp with a 13" to 14" prop should push your boat at about 15 to 20 mph. Having had some experience with the San Francisco Bay, I would say that you really don't want to be out there in a boat that goes 8 - 10 mph. Go for a little bit bigger engine, as a minimum, just to give yourself an ability to run upstream in some current or duck in somewhere quickly, if the weather gets nasty. My choice would be to go on a hunt for an OMC, two cylinder 50hp or 55hp. Those motors would give you enough power for safety and would allow you to use the boat for water skiing or towing a tube if you wanted to.