454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

[jaxnjil]

hi were looking to get something better suited to camping on flaming gorge and lake powell and there seems to be quite a few sea ray 80s weekenders around in the 23 foot size.
its 200 miles one way to FG and 400 one way to powel for us so this is the largest boat i want to pull with my 1/2 ton pu.
i was set on a 350 and then had a dealer tell me that, in a boat, every thing being equal they would burn the same amount of gas. that it takes the same horse power to move the boat and the big block dosnt have to work as hard.
is he shining me?
will the 454 last any longer take any more or less for
maintance or other than power is it any better to have than a 350?
please any opinions welcome and any one that has a 85 to 89 or so weekender feel free to chime in.
he thinks the 454 he has is around 400 hp and the 350 is around 260 does this sound close?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

1st i think you are pushing it with a 1/2 ton P U. i have a 23' deckboat with 5.7L VP, deckboat, going to a cabin, you may need the extra of the 454. especially if you want to do any water sports.

 

[tommays]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

If you get a BIG block it needs to have a Bravo Drive which started about 1986-87, even the current HO EFI mag is only 425 HP


i would think the big block would be pretty rare in that boat




Tommays

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

If you get a BIG block it needs to have a Bravo Drive which started about 1986-87, even the current HO EFI mag is only 425 HP


i would think the big block would be pretty rare in that boat




Tommays

i though all 454s were bravo and when i asked him he said it was a alpha. its a 88 and when i checked here on searay sight it said 260 and 330 hp were offered

checking GVW on pu now

 

[gstanton]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

I have an F-150 with 5.7 gasser. I tow my 23' back and forth from FL to MD annually... and an 8000 lb travel trailer all around the country just for giggles. With tranny cooler and appropriate braking, there is no need to go to a dually diesel as some might imply.

Regarding the boat's engine, you may need to play with the prop size to be really happy with either engine.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

i've got to look at this thing and see whats up with it. the guy told me its a 24 ft but our searay sight and napa blue book dont even show a 24 model for a weekender that year. and if it is a 454 i would think 330 hp would be a little light but i dont know what they could have been rated.
looking for a mercury sight to double check on

 

[Don S]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

SeaRay used some 454's with an Alpha drive between 86 and 88, the Bravo drive came along in 88 and that was the end of the Alpha's behind a big block.
If you have a feather for a throttle hand, avoid full throttle start, then you will probably be fine. The 454's then were rated at 330. Probably when Merc decided 300 hp was max for an Alpha.
Unless you are really wanting to pull a bunch of skiers out of the water at the same time you have all the camping gear onboard, the 5.7 should be fine for a 23 ft boat. VERY FEW have big blocks, and the fuel usage is a lot more with a BB, even if you take it easy.

 

[j442w30]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

My grandfather has a 1998 23' Sea Ray bowrider with the 5.7 (350) MerCruiser and an Alpha One outdrive. Top speed is just about 50 MPH and it gets out of the hole and onto plane real fast. It is a very nice boat and I think the 5.7 is the perfect engine for it. We have no problem pulling skiers or tubers around and the fuel economy is not bad it you cruise around 2500 - 3000 RPMS.

I really don't see a need for the 454 unless you really feel the need for speed, especially with an Alpha behind it.

 

[wvit1001]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

I have a friend with a Wellcraft with the 454 and the alpha drive. He has had problems twice with the outdrive. The last time it snapped the upper shaft and put a piece right through the housing. That was the end of that drive. It sounded like a grenade went off when it happened.

I think I'd pass on the big motor with the alpha drive.

 

[oops!]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

im currently investigating a bb.

the alpha limit is generally considered 300 ponies.....i have heard of "hardend gears" that can take an alpha up higher in hp.....330 or so....

if the bb is 400 hp it has been worked, and you will need a bravo or penta.

check where the dealer is getting his stats from.

 

[DJ]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

We have a 454 (7.4L) (Bravo 3) in a 26' Crownline bowrider. I can't imagine that boat with a small block.

Yes, the 454 is thirsty but a small block, working its heart out, would be thirstier.

We can enjoy the boat with the 454 loafing. A small block would be working. Read; noise.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

Rarely do I hear folks say they wish they went with a smaller motor. However, in this case I'd agree the alpha drive is the deal breaker with big power.

 

[MikDee]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

If you listen to Don, he's pretty much right on the money! I had this big old heavy 79'- 24' SeaRay Cuddy that was as he described. It did everything well, could do 40mph, and was easy on gas! (and really moving for a big boat, at the time) I always wanted the 330hp big block, but couldn't afford to change, but thanked my lucky stars when I had to fuel up! With modern technology, and probably being lighter, your 88'- 24' SeaRay should be even faster, & more economical. I'd say you don't really need the big block, it's a good combo as it is, unless you really need the extra weight, speed, and a more thirsty engine, that's my opinion.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

im currently investigating a bb.

the alpha limit is generally considered 300 ponies.....i have heard of "hardend gears" that can take an alpha up higher in hp.....330 or so....

if the bb is 400 hp it has been worked, and you will need a bravo or penta.

check where the dealer is getting his stats from.

i think they make it up as the go. i know just enough to know i need to know a lot more so i ask a lot of questions and the more i asked the more it seemed they didnt have the answers.
having never been a big block fan in autos and trucks i'm going to take a pass on both. the 88 454 at 7500 and the 85 350 at 7. the 88 was realy a nice clean boat and i wish it was the one with the 350. the 85 was a lot rougher and showed more wear and tear.
i know nada prices are just a basic starting point but i was surprised thay added 3100 for the 454 motor.
i was also looking at a nice 22' grumman 223 cuddy with a v-6 that only weights 250 lb more than my bayliner
at the price of gas for both towing and running the boat this might be my best bet.
that 88 would be a realy nice boat weekends ect. it going to be hard to walk away from.
thanks much for all the input in the end it was a big help an filled in the blanks i'm not sure of

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

if unsure, wait, there are going to be a lot more come on the market. somepeople are going to have to dump, boats due the the economy.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

if unsure, wait, there are going to be a lot more come on the market. somepeople are going to have to dump, boats due the the economy.

thats just what my wife shari said this morning
she also add will still have our bayliner and we had a ball on it last summer and shes the one that has to do with out a head if wi don't upgrade.

 

[QC]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

Don't forget . . . at 3600 ft. Lake Powell will make a small block struggle some . . . I lost 5 MPH and some hole shot vs. 1000 ft.

 

[bekosh]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

That era BB should be 295-330hp depending on how Searay rated it. Prop or Shaft. For ex., Wellcraft listed the BB in mine as 295hp at the prop. That's right at the limit for the Alpha but unless you're just hammering it all the time it would be fine.

As for the BB being a gas hog, Bravo Sierra! At a reasonable cruising speed (30-35mph), the BB will get as good as, or better mileage than the small block in that size boat.

Here is a chart from a magazine article on a 26 foot bowrider with 3 different V-8's in the same boat. Notice the MPG is not too much different??

Go for the Big Block, you'll never be sorry.

 

[45Auto]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

I've noticed that the small blocks will get about 25% better gas mileage cruising in the 30 mph range, they're about the same in the 40's, and the big blocks get better mileage once you're above about 50 mph.

Mercury's website has some tests on the same boat (a 23' Crownline) with a 350 and a 496 that seem to pretty much agree with my experiences.

350 test:

http://northamerica.mercurymarine.com/_media/pdfs/bhb/sterndrives/350MAGMPI_Crownline225BR_0304.pdf

496 Test:

http://northamerica.mercurymarine.com/_media/pdfs/bhb/sterndrives/496MAG_Crownline225BR_0304.pdf

I have a 23' with a big block and it's well worth the trade off to me!

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: 454 or 350 in 23' sea ray?

first of all thanks to all who contributed opinions. it was a lot of help when we sifted the pros and cons.
we went ahead and bought this boat.
we just havent seen a 20 year one owner boat in this condition for the money.
some of the questions and points brought up by you guys we had to consider.
alpha drive 300 hp capacity~~the 454 is a stock 330 hp motor and has never been used at a elevation lower than lake powell and more use at flaming gorge which is 6000 or so feet. when you figure the horse power loss at atlitude it probably hasnt been over worked as much as we thought.
towing with my half ton pick up~~saw 23' sundancer on same brand trailer as my boat behind half ton and it looked fine. i'll be short power with m 5.3s but we found out we can store it at the lake for a small fee so once we get it there there is no reason we will be pulling it more than 6 or so miles to launch and we can get that done for a reasonable fee if we dont want to launch and retrieve our selves.
price of fuel for the 454~~hey if your gonna play you gotta pay right?