Starting Issues with an 85 '85

[swrupert83]

so i'm about to take this engine on a one way trip to the middle of vineyard sound.

1985 85hp so far replaced the starter solenoid, the starter, the prop (huge chip in it), and the fuel line; also pulled and cleaned most of the terminals. Went to fire it up for the first time (which by the way I can't for the life of me find "ear muffs" that fit, so i just bought a big rubbermade container and filled it with water). At first the solenoid for the choke didn't work but after jumping the switch once, pushing in the switch (key) made it engage almost every time. She just cranked and cranked, but nothing, then a BIG backfire(?). I pulled the plugs, 1 & 3 where black, so i sanded down lightly with emery cloth put it back together, sprayed 50:1 (with a drop of sea foam in it) into the carbs. I noticed that, when out of gear, the control doesn't let you open full throttle or for that matter any sort of open. cranked again, she kinda started but not really...... I could hear the engine pick up faster than the starter, but as soon as I let off the starter, she stopped. (fyi i did check for spark, 2 & 3 have a strong spark, 1's spark is weaker)

ran the battery dry, set it up on the charger & went to waxing the boat.

with a full charge hours later, I start the whole thing again. again with the almost starting and back-firing
THEN i went to crank again, and my brand new starter made this horrible ratchet noise. upon futher inspection I notice that the starter is spinning but the head with the teeth is not. the fly wheel turns easily enough by hand

any suggestions... kinda know two that are gonna come: rebuild carbs, do compression check.

 

[JB]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

Timing.

Could be a sheared flywheel key or wires on the wrong plugs.

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

sheared flywheel key.......... hmmm I suppose that would match up with the giant chip in the old prop...... why do i feel this is gonna be a giant head-ache.

guess i gotta bust out the PB balster and wire wheel..... that top nut & thread has a good deal of rust on it. any advice as to what i should expect when i take the flywheel off?? anything gonna come flying off?

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

so I did a quick check, and so far no luck on finding a new key.... if that is the problem.... or for that matter a new flywheel... I say that because so far I've read about 3 horror stories from people attempting to remove it with out an impact gun (which i don't have)

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

With the constant use of the starter, the brass fitting with the gears on the starter wear out and become stripped. The starter turns fine but there isn't any gears left to engage. I payed $60 for one at a marine store. Then later when I had my starter rebuilt at a local bussiness, I then took it home, hooked it up and the same problem. Took it back and the guy held the starter, put some channel locks on the gear and started the starter. The starter worked fine, proving the gears were bad. He felt bad he didn't catch it, And sold me one for $20. So this makes me think the part might be availabe at the local auto store. Look around and save some money.

 

[bman1bpm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

homedepot/lowes sell key stock you can cut to size. If you've got one of those fancy harborfreight tools stores they sell an assortment of different size keys.

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

yeah, i just ordered a new head for the new starter. and one for the old starter which also turned just fine....... oh boy. can't have too many spare parts.

still no luck finding a new flywheel key.

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

Did you try the test that I mentioned in the other post? Let us know where you bought it and how much you paid. Thanks

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

you're gonna have to refresh my memory, sorry

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

also quick question, while cranking the engine (still never fired) i noticed a tiny trickle of water coming out. should water be streaming out when I'm cranking the engine full bore, or should nothing come out until the t-stat opens?

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

SHEZ ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok she starts now. finally light at the end of the tunnel. With a nice full battery, with a bypass pull switch for the choke (no more pesky pushing in while turning), and a little fanagling with throttle positions my old baby fired. Let run for about 10 seconds then turned her off. Jumped out of the boat went to the back & fired her off again (engine in big ol' bucket of water) NO WATER COMING OUT..... after about 15 seconds I switched it off. light smoke coming out of water port (lotta smoke all around... seafoam in the gas) Found some reg earmuffs and about 20 minutes later with some vice clamps tried forcing water in, fired off NO WATER, and more smoke out of "water exhaust" port, turned engine off. Pulled of cover for T-stat, bone dry also NO T-STAT so now I gotta buy one of those. already have a new impeller in the mail, but was unsure of which gasket i would need. also quick note, I put the hose up to the T-stat opening and ran water in, water came out of the intake vents.

Of course now I'm thinking "why did they remove the T-stat?"
I'm thinking cooling problems...............


any quick tips on gettting to the impeller?

ALSO GJM, I put a wrench under the Bendix to give it a little push up while spinning and ever since i works all the time now

 

[cordell]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

Here is the impeller change I used this the other day worked just fine. :]

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=231685

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

Using water muffs might not work every time for water circulation. They worked for me countless times until I changed the impeller and tried them again, no water. Took advice from the foram and tried the other method. Put lower unit in the largest tub you have with water. Water must be over the cavitation plate, if not, take one or two large heavy duty garbage bags and tie them over lower unit, above cav. plate. Fill tub with water, then fill bag or bags with water. Then start engine, should have water flow then. What did you end up paying for the brass fitting for the starter?

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

the replacement i bought isn't brass, it's arco part DV393. It was $19.00, i still haven't gotten it yet though. why does the cav plate have to be submerged?

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

I think the water level should be well above the impeller. What company did you order the part from? I'm thinking the brass was used so it would strp out before the starter itself would be damaged. Then again. maybe not.

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

I should have asked, Is this the part that is at the end pf the starter that engages the flywheel? And was it stripped, or by hitting it with your wrench and having it engage, wasn't needed to be changed?

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

the original starter that was on the motor when i got it, had the kind that i just ordered (not sure of the metal but silver colored). that starter spun fine just the bendix didn't pop up, (rookie mistake it just needed to be cleaned, but then i put that head on my new starter after the head crapped out and has a slightly different thread size and f'd up the threading on the inside....double rookie mistake). so the new bendix if for the old starter as a back up. with the new starter on the engine cranking, I put the wrench under the bendix and levered up for a few seconds...... since then it stays up long enough to start the engine then pops back down.... odd

the new starter i bought for 80 bucks came with a brass bendix

i ordered the bendix from the iboats store

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

Good deal, sounds like one of your problems is taken care of. Did you get water to circulate through the system yet? Might work even without the T-stat in.

 

[swrupert83]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

YEP,
went out and bought a 60 gallon plastic sterelite tub from Walmart for 8 bucks. fully submerges the cav plate, and sure enough after about a second water started gushing out of the water ports. NOW i have a '99 6hp Evinrude that creates a perfect stream of water, where as the water coming out of the Force is more like a gushing water fall (with pressure). is this because the t-stat isn't there creating a little back pressure in system.......... or something......... OR is this just how they (old Forces) flow

 

[gjm]

Re: Starting Issues with an 85 '85

I'm not sure since I have never seen a motor run without the t-stat in. When you reinstall your t-stat, let us know the difference in the water flow. It will be interesting to hear what the change does to the water flow.