treedance....health systems

[Kiwi Phil]

treedancer.
This is how I understand our system to work....it is pretty accurate in General Terms.

We have both public and private hospitals.
The Govt does have a set-fee type schedule.

Public Hospitals are free (100%).
You are treated on the basis that the most urgent go 1st.
Anita (wife) had a head bleed 15yrs back (sort of like a stroke).
The service and treatment she required could not be provided by a private hospital in our area, (which we wouldn't have used any way) but the Public system acted immediately, and was absolutely brilliant.

We do not carry Med Insurance.
All serious illness will be covered by the public for us, and because of our income, any ellective surgery that we would have to wait for in the Public system, we just pay for out of our pockets.
I have been to a surgeon for 2 minor ops, (gen anesetic) and what he does is put me thru the Public Hospital as a Private patient, and he claims the set-fee (from the schedule) and charges me the extra, and I just pay it.....asked for a discount for cash once, but reckoned he couldn't fiddle his books like that.

Now for the GP Dr.
We pay $50 for a visit and get just over $40 back from medicare.
Children are Bulked-Billed (pay nothing...Dr just takes the medicare fee.)
We could go to a medical Centre that only Bul-Bills, and pay nothing, but it is hard to get an appt. Usually 1st in 1st serve, and you often get the Dr that is on that day.
Medicine. If you are low income, I think a prescription cost around $4-5, no matter what it is.
For us we pay full price, and I think the Max I can ever pay is $32 (balance is paid by Govt)
We pay something like 1.5% of our income to the Govt and it is called Medicare Levy. (I think I have that figure correct.....I never look at it).

Aussie has a Parmacuetical Benefits Scheme
If you make a drug and it is not on the scheme, it will never be sold/prescribed by the Dr. Full-stop.
If you want your drug included on the scheme, it must be tested by the scheme to prove it does what you claim.
It is then compared to similar drugs already on the scheme.
Let say yours is 50% more expensive. If it is 50% better/more effective then it will be considered...if not....it is history.
If it comes in cheaper and as effective as identical drug already on the scheme, then it may well replace the others, and the others will be withdrawn from the scheme.

So, Drug companies never advertise on TV....no point....waste of money
They can not determine their price......well they sort of can.....but they have to justify the cost with the effectiveness.

If something superceeds their product in effectivness or price, then they better do something about it real quick or they get replaced.

Take my word for it treedance, the #@*^&'n American Drug Companies hate the scheme, and have tried every trick in the book to force the Aussie Govt to wipe it.
When the Free Trade Agreement between our countries was done, the political and economic pressure bought to bear on the Aussie Govt was incredible.

We like the Americans as cousins, but if the destroy this scheme, then they may well lookse a good friendship.
I (probably like many others) enjoy the secruity ok knowing, no matter what goes wrong in my life, I can always get good effective treament.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[treedancer]

Re: treedance....health systems

Thanks for the reply Phil, I was just trying to put things I perspective. Sure a shame it takes two separate threads to have a conversation isn?t it?

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: treedance....health systems

I wasn't part of it but appreciated the info. I wish our system was more like ya'lls.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: treedance....health systems

My wife tells me I missed something important.
There is a thing called a saftey net threshold..
That means when your medicines exceed a certain value (can't recall if our family's net is $800 or $1,400) in a year, from that point out all medicines cost you the $4-5 (? whatever) irrespective of your income.
My wife does keeps all reciepts for prescriptions....she looks after it.
I do know that she chooses to use a quite expensive medication for a particular need (I call them anti-***** pills....jeeeez hope LF isn't about!!)because it dosn't really matter, as once we go over the threshold, she gets it cheap anyway.
If she used the cheaper version, we would still go over the threshold, but just later, so why not go over earlier....does that make sence??
Cheers
Phillip

 

[treedancer]

Re: treedance....health systems

My wife tells me I missed something important.
There is a thing called a saftey net threshold..
That means when your medicines exceed a certain value (can't recall if our family's net is $800 or $1,400) in a year, from that point out all medicines cost you the $4-5 (? whatever) irrespective of your income.
My wife does keeps all reciepts for prescriptions....she looks after it.
I do know that she chooses to use a quite expensive medication for a particular need (I call them anti-***** pills....jeeeez hope LF isn't about!!)because it dosn't really matter, as once we go over the threshold, she gets it cheap anyway.
If she used the cheaper version, we would still go over the threshold, but just later, so why not go over earlier....does that make sence??
Cheers
Phillip

That is the point I was trying to make Phil, you have what some people in this country call socialized medicine. Our country has 47 million people without any kind of health insurance at all, yet Australia spends around 8.5% of gross domestic product on healthcare, as apposed to our (13.7%). To all of our mods I’m trying to have a conversation without putting any politics in it, not trying to stir up any pots, just trying to get an understanding on the different aspects of healthcare in another country compared to our…..healtcare or lack of. Phil you I believe run your own business; do you have to kick in any money to the Government for your employees healthcare?

Cheers

Don

 

[tommays]

Re: treedance....health systems

Phil

My last plan cost 250 dollars a week with company help i had to switch to a lower plan as the cost was becoming and the cost droped to 100 dollars a week


The hard part is my son is still a full time student and was removed at the age of 23 even with two years of school to finish

So we had to buy a second plan to cover him at 75 dollars a week

 

[treedancer]

Re: treedance....health systems

Phil

My last plan cost 250 dollars a week with company help i had to switch to a lower plan as the cost was becoming and the cost droped to 100 dollars a week


The hard part is my son is still a full time student and was removed at the age of 23 even with two years of school to finish

So we had to buy a second plan to cover him at 75 dollars a week

[FONT=&quot]Hi Tommays ,I wonder what your co-pay was on the $250 plan, as apposed to the $100 hundred dollar a week plan, Tommays ; also any deductible/drug benefits?[/FONT]

 

[arboldt]

Re: treedance....health systems

Wow.

Since my workplace is being downsized and I'll be out of a job in a couple months, we've been checking for health insurance for my wife and I. Our kids are adults with their own famiilies, so it's just the two of us.

First, all Americans pay Medicare Tax of 1.5% (I think -- % may be off)

If I take the COBRA option to keep existing insurance, it'll cost about $1,100 per month, and that's not a luxury plan, either. It has a $500 deductible per person, and I still pay 20% of all costs above the deductible. For the drug plan, I pay 35% of all drug costs, up to a $200 max per prescription -- and we have a couple Rx where that max helps a lot.

Or, like many that have been laid off already, I can opt for a Blue Cross private policy for about $200 per person ($400 combined). It has a $1,000 per person deductible, 80/20, and no Rx converage, although there are Rx contract rates so things might be a bit less than full retail.

With all the healthcare insurance debate in America over the years, one fact is usually omitted. ALL healthcare is rationed. In the US, it's rationed based on ability to pay. Aussies apparently ration based on seriousness. Brits ration by first-come?

This is *not* to be a political debate, but to point out each nation has emphasized different values. [political comment I'd just typed deleted before posting].

 

[tommays]

Re: treedance....health systems

All the out of pocket cost are about the same as there both blue cross plans


The difference is the 250 plan was PPO (you go were you want when ever you want)

The 100 dollar plan you go through a primay care doctor and get referals and we are very happy with the primary care doctor as she took are MIL through a prolonged illness with great care

 

[gonefishie]

Re: treedance....health systems

So Phil, how much do you have to pay income tax and at how many %? social security tax? what about gas prices? Sounded like you have it made. Heck, I might consider moving over there.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: treedance....health systems

Here are our Tax Rates.
They do not include the 1.5% Medicare Levy.

BUT, although accurate, there comes in to the equation things like relief for having kids, childcare allowance, rebates for a host of different events....which may reduce your rate, or give you an actual reduction in tax.

For my age, as self employed, I can pay in to Superannuation. The 1st $5,000, saves me dollar for dollar tax, then up to (I think for me) $250,000, contributions, I get a 75% tax rebate.
I did that last yr and wiped my complete tax bill out.

BUT then there is GST of 10% (consumption tax) on everthing except basic food items.
It seems as tho we are over taxed, but on the other side of the coin, we have most of our needs met, and if you want better, then you go the private way.
I would never change to your system. I'm not critical of it....I just enjoy the 100% security I have, and feel I get more back in services than I pay out in dollars.
Cheers
Phillip

Taxable income
Tax on this income

$1 ? $6,000
Nil

$6,001 ? $30,000
15c for each $1 over $6,000

$30,001 ? $75,000
$3,600 plus 30c for each $1 over $30,000

$75,001 ? $150,000
$17,100 plus 40c for each $1 over $75,000

$150,001 and over
$47,100 plus 45c for each $1 over $150,000

 

[i386]

Re: treedance....health systems

and if you want better, then you go the private way.

Does that mean you're paying twice?

 

[gonefishie]

Re: treedance....health systems

According to your table, let take the 30k-75k bracket.
At 30K the tax is = 12%
50k = 19.2%
75k = 22.8%
On top of that you're paying 10% sales tax. Ouch...I can see why your govt. can afford to provides free healthcare.

2007 U.S federal tax rate for a person filing as single.
30k = 13.7%
50k = 17.9%
75k = 20.2%
Our sales tax vary from state to state. Indiana is 7% as of 4/1/08, it used to be 5% then bumped to 6% then 7%. I got the feeling that it gonna keeps going up in the future.

Do you have state taxes? After all taxes (federal+state+local+etc..) for me is about 17.5% of my income. I think both you and I are both taxed to death at about the same rate.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: treedance....health systems

What about taxes on "luxary" items such as tobacco, fuel, etc? Do you have hidden taxes such as yearly car renewals, liscenses to do certain things that must be re-upped every year like drive a car, hunt, fish?

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: treedance....health systems

i386.
Paying twice:
well yes, sort of.
Education:
my kid goes to the best private school in the area. We pay $5k plus extras per year (which brings it up a hull of a lot actually).
The Govt pay the private school the amount they would have spent educating him.
My wifes cousin sent her kids to a private school in another country and the fee was $23k per yr as a day student, more for a boarder.

Health.
If you want to go the private system, then you insure yourself, and pay the gap.
A friend had a bypass some yrs back. He paid for it out of his pocket....$40k or something.
He then took the a/c to Medicare and was refunded the amount they "list" as their cost. He was only up for the difference. Reckoned there was little point in insurance.
I mentioned above what I have done in the past.
Urgent care is good and quick in the Public system. Ellective is slow....you wait your turn, or until there is a space. In my mind, that is where private insurance comes in...say for vericose viens, hip replacement....non life threatening things.

gonef..
State taxes come in the form of tax on petrol, fees on transfer of house and land etc, annual car rego, liciences, etc, but no direct tax. All indirect.

KB
Yes, we have a Customs and Excise tax on cig's, booze, petrol etc

At a Shire Council level we have Property Rates. My 2 acres runs out at about $2k per year.

I have a simple attitude towards it. I would prefer to pay more tax on a regular basis, that covers absolutely everything.
When my situation changes, say if I had a job and got fired, I can't loose one single benefit.
Everthing is the same for everybody for ever.

Parents recieve a Child Endowment payment...weekly....small....to help with costs.
Parents also recieve Family Support payments.....sizable if on a small income, but on a sliding scale. The more you earn, the less you get. It cuts out with 1 child at $90k pa combined family income.
Renters on lower incomes recieve Rent Assistance, once again on a sliding scale.

On top of that, when I retire I can collect a Fed Pension (small of course), plus I would get discounts on Rates, Power, Phone, Public Transport, entry costs to public venues etc.
Now this is means tested, so if I had a big retirement income and large $$ assets, then that pension would be reduced accordingly.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[gonefishie]

Re: treedance....health systems

I have a simple attitude towards it. I would prefer to pay more tax on a regular basis, that covers absolutely everything.
When my situation changes, say if I had a job and got fired, I can't loose one single benefit.
Everthing is the same for everybody for ever.

Parents recieve a Child Endowment payment...weekly....small....to help with costs.
Parents also recieve Family Support payments.....sizable if on a small income, but on a sliding scale. The more you earn, the less you get. It cuts out with 1 child at $90k pa combined family income.
Renters on lower incomes recieve Rent Assistance, once again on a sliding scale.

On top of that, when I retire I can collect a Fed Pension (small of course), plus I would get discounts on Rates, Power, Phone, Public Transport, entry costs to public venues etc.
Now this is means tested, so if I had a big retirement income and large $$ assets, then that pension would be reduced accordingly.

Cheers
Phillip

That sounded like about the same here. Are all those govt. subsidies automatic or people have to apply for them? Welfare system is nice and all but it breeds a lot of lazy mofo, sitting home and collects handouts.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: treedance....health systems

Gonefish...
yes, you are dead right.
I have come to the conclusion every society is blessed with those people. When our 10% GST (consumption tax) was introduced, they were the biggest complainers.
It is 10% on everything except basic food items, so at least they contribute 10% of their spending to the national coffers, so they are now paying a lot more than before.
The other group that were hit hard were the wealthy, who thru their business structures, made a lot and paid little tax.
Now they pay 10% on all non business expenditure. They never complained. A good friend in that category said, "well, Iv'e had it too good for too long, so it is not a problem....I pay it joyfully".
Cheers
Phillip