big car / oil conspiracy

[Bob_VT]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

Most of the domestic manufacturers have had a good economy car or two but I think there are a few problems.....

I believe that most manufacturers do not want a car that will last 150K miles it is a planned obsolescence. There have been a few high MPG cars "badged" as domestic but foreign made. The GEO is a great example ..... geo metro's and tracker's were suzuki and geo prism's were toyota. That ended. The ford probe was a mazda. I believe profit got in the way.

Another fualt IMO is not improving what they have but a total replacement with a new model car. Look at the chevy malibu..... the name has changed but there are VERY differant cars. What happened to the cavalier? Oh yeah rebadged as the "cobalt"...... Ford committed suicide when it killed the taurus but.... it has come back in name only.

What happen to improving what we had?

Now look at the imports....The civic, corolla, camry, accord, subaru legacy, jetta...... these models don't die but are improved. The improvements are made in 5 year cycles to keep things simple!

I'm driving a toyota yaris now that gets 40 mpg with the automatic..... the gas station attendant misses me!

 

[treedancer]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

Does anyone know if the air quality in European cities is that much worse than ours? Just wondering.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

The way we entice manufacturers to build and sell high mileage cars is simple - we change our buying habits and purchase fewer gas guzzlers and more of the efficient cars. The market will respond and a broader range of economical cars will be available. They will also be available in various trim levels to suit buyers of different "wallet sizes." As for the mix between domestic and foreign, I suspect buyers will react much as they always have, and that is to buy whatever brand of vehicle that they like and have confidence in.

As for the issue of vehicles like the Tracker being made by someone else besides GM, that is also neither new or unique. GM and Ford have had business relationships with other manufacturers for decades and still do. Some of you may remember a small, yellow pickup that Chevy sold in the early 80s. It was called a "LUV" and was sold before the S10 line of pickups and SUVs was offered. The LUV was an Isuzu from bumper to bumper. It was entirely built by Isuzu but badged as a Chevy. In 1985, when the Chevy S10 was introduced, the base model engine was a stock Isuzu motor. The same is true of Ford then and now. The Ford Courier was a Mazda and the follow-on vehicle, the Ranger/Explorer, is primarily a Mazda. Same thing with Chrysler with their early compact pickups, which were Mitsubishis. And, in each of these cases, those Japanese manufacturers sold the same vehicles under their own brand names. As an example, The Mazda B series pickups are essentially the same vehicle as the Ford Rangers.

My personal opinion is that people get too caught up in pheripheral issues instead of focusing on what are really the driving (pun intended) considerations - demand and profit motive. The auto manufacturers build and sell what the buying public demands and what makes those auto makers money. If people want oversized gas guzzlers, the car makers are happy to make them, charge ridiculously high prices, and smile all the way to the bank. But, when the car buying public wises up and begins to buy mostly small cars, both new and used, and all those "tanks" will sit on the lots eating up floor plan dollars. We will then see a mad scramble by manufacturers to offer more of the economy vehicles because the dealers will no longer take in the bigger cars and trucks.

BTW, I happened to see a news story this morning which suggests that there is a new trend - it seems folks are beginning to buy older, 4 cylinder cars as "daily rides," so that they can leave the large SUVs and pickups at home. One guy who was featured bought a beatup old Subaru BRAT, because it still gets 30+ mpg. While I suspect that the number of people who do this will remain relatively small, it will be interesting to see just how common it becomes.

 

[arboldt]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

We're getting bogged down and forgetting the point here.

For almost 20 years (seems like it at least), my parents bought new Taurus. Through the 90's, they averaged 32 mpg and 36+ on the highway. At that time, we sincerely thought 40+ mpg would surely be standard by the late 00's.

It would be difficult to find similar comfortable "full-size" vehicle with that kind of mileage today. I'm not talking comparing compact to foreign to SUV. I'm talking full-size American sedan to full-size American sedan with supposedly the major difference being 15 years. Over the years, weight was added for safety features, bigger engines, better performance, ... (whatever reasons you want to add).

By today's standards we all smirk and shake our heads at the 1980's K-cars, but Iococca's TV ads stating "If you can find a better car, buy it." kinda sets the tone. Problem for America is, we can and we are.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

I wonder what you read into my post that isn't there, TG.

Those cars have been available and sell well in Europe because of the prices they pay for fuel.

They will sell well here, now that we are paying similar prices, but only after they are upgraded to US safety and emissions standards.

Umm i might be a bit sensative here but

Quote: Until recently they couldn't have sold them here because we spoiled fat-assed Americans wouldn't have bought them. Most have no AC, power steering, power windows, 800 watt

Nothing personal JB but i am really getting tired of those type's of thought's...Then again i live in a state that shall we say lean's to European style of life.... Umm im going to stop now before i get this thread Poofed...

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

Some good reading here about the CAFA standards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy

Just be aware that the car manufacturers catorgorize the cars and trucks...... The chevrolet HHR is classified as a truck so it would improve the chevrolet CAFE average.

BTW CAFE standards are related to the safety standards!!

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in the gear set here. It was reported that in the first quarter of 2008 that scooter sales jumped 23 percent over the last quarter of 2007.

You can't forget, a scooter like mine, capable of 100mph, 2 full seats with footrests and grab handles and has a 16 gal storage area under the seat, not to mention the 5 gallon trunk I have on the back, is a viable means of transportation better than any vehicle as far as parking, performance, etc. The fact that you can grocery shop with it on the way home from work (I have, 2 gallons of milk, a 24x16' folded tarp, 2 liters of soda, various other sundry grocery items all fit with room to spare) makes it extremely practical far beyond the fuel savings it gives. You also get A+ parking, as Wal Mart and Best Buy both let me park my bike right next to the door to go in, so when the lots full I pull up and park it next to the building. 10 feet to the store entrance! Its also ideal for women because its shiftless to 100mph. That appeals to a lot of people. No clutches, no gears, no over revving, no bogging, nothing. Twist and go. 0-100mph.

The single thing you give up is a bit of safety, but those rinky dink cars made in Europe don't have much safety going for them. A good rider on a bike can use the bikes performance to avoid a crash, which is better than using a cage to protect you in one.

As you well know, scooters are extremely popular in Europe, and I have a feeling that in time they will be here too.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

And there kinda like a fat chick- Fun to ride but you wouldn't want your freinds seeing you do it!


Just joking with ya WITF. I could see myself riding a bike like yours. Now the ones that only go 35-40- AWL HECK NAW!

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

If we were forced to be better drivers, we wouldn't need safer cars. Then smaller cars would be a big asset in greater mileage. I just wish I still had my old 1970 Triupmph GT6+, it got 45 mpg @70 mph. It was a bare bones car. No AC, no power windows, seats, mirrors, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc.

I remember a clip from the Discovery Channel on the Autobahn. The Germans couldn't understand why cup holders were built into American cars. I feel that we get to relaxed in driving which the 40K plus that die proves that.

Would be nice to see a group of people start their own oil company within our borders and only sell within. The competetion would not change much cause the big oil co's have plenty of other buyers now. Just about everything today is based on GREED and not to make America proud as it use to be. At least that is my opinion.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

If we were forced to be better drivers, we wouldn't need safer cars. Then smaller cars would be a big asset in greater mileage.

Unfortunately that trend is going the opposite direction. Just look at how many insurance companies no longer even raise your rates if you cause a wreck? The ads that really raise my ire though, are those safe auto commercials with the young woman who says she's been in tons of wrecks, but gets to keep driving because of safe auto car insurance... I keep thinking, I wonder how many lives have been damaged because she keeps driving.

I agree with you though, people who are perpetually bad drivers, shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Would be nice to see a group of people start their own oil company within our borders and only sell within. The competetion would not change much cause the big oil co's have plenty of other buyers now. Just about everything today is based on GREED and not to make America proud as it use to be. At least that is my opinion.

I totally agree, and just FYI, BP only sells gas produced from North American oil wells here. It's not totally within our borders, but it's closer than some of the others.

 

[arboldt]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

A coworker's brother just retired as one of the state geologists. He had responsibility to monitor most of the oil wells etc in the state. (tragically, he just died, within a few months of retiring).

As of a couple years ago, he said there were many oil wells in west and northwest Michigan that were not pumping. The only reason they were not producing is that the owners had decided the price wasn't up enough yet, or for other reasons they just decided to not pump. We could significantly increase production within a few hours once that decision was made.

With crude now priced where it is, I wonder if those wells are pumping yet.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

Unfortunately, the citizens of California and Florida want high gas prices. When I hear one of them complain the nicest words I can think of are, "STFU!" Why do I say this? Simple.

Ever heard the old adage, "actions speak louder than words?" Well, their actions speak much louder than their rhetoric. They will NOT allow drilling off their coasts, but then have the nerve to complain about oil prices. Now us, in Louisiana, have oil rigs littered on and offshore for hundreds of miles. They don't care about the shores of Louisiana, put the oil rigs there, we don't want to mess up our beautiful beaches.

Well you know what, kiss my left n*t. Open up YOUR shores like Texas and Louisiana has opened up theirs to offshore production if you don't like the cost of gas. If you don't want to do that, then as stated before, STFU.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: big car / oil conspiracy

I've heard it will take ten years to get our own oil.....Jed Clampett did it shooting at some food!