Burnt up engine?

[pa_boda]

A freak thing has happened to a buddy of mine (not me) who has an engine he thinks is blown up. He has a 2007 Mercruiser, 350 Mag that was winterized by the dealer he bought it from. He took it home and stored it. This Spring he put the plugs back in the engine. Hooked up a hose and ears to the lower unit and started it up. It purred nice but it is not clear whether he did not let it run long enough to know if water was circulating through. I'm also not sure if he turned it over before the water was running or he turned it on after. He said he ran it 2 or 3 minutes. ( I always make sure I see water circulating back out the engine and then wait for warm water to show up so I know the thermostat is working.) He put the boat in the water and 20 minutes later the engine burned up. It started smoking profusely. It doesn't sound like there was any water in the block according to the dealer. The temp guage never shown more than 170 degrees and no alarm sounded when he had it running which makes sense if there was no water in the engine. The paint on the engine even got crispy and fell off. It won't start now. The dealership he bought it from made a comment to him that he could see no reason they would be able to warranty the engine (he has a 2 year warranty on it). Does that sound reasonable that a boat less than a year old that was winterized by a certified merc service center couldn't be warranteed? I would guess the impeller or water pump didn't function sense there was no water in the engine. I would think the hose preasure would have pushed a little water in when he had the ears on wouldn't it?? I know just enough to be dangerous but was hoping some of you guys who are much smarter than me can shed some light on what may have happened and if you think he has a leg to stand on regarding the warranty issue. Understandably, he is pretty sick about it.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Burnt up engine?

if he can prove that the temp gage and alarm didn't work. i'd think he has a leg to stand on........ short of that, smoking the impeller w/o water i'd think would be operator error. but the temp gage shoulda picked up the malfunction..... and that, it would be hard for me to think that he could mess up.... just imho of corse.....

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Burnt up engine?

first I would look at the impeller, if its melted it means your buddy fried the motor and he most likly has no warrenty claim.
only thing that melts impellers is a dry run and they can fry in 30 seconds.
as far as the temp sensor, if there is no water in the block the sensor wont show anything, it has to have water on the tip to get a true reading.
first thing I would do would be to inspect the impeller and pump body.
its also why its always a good idea to have the same dealership dewinterize it that winterized it.

 

[pa_boda]

Re: Burnt up engine?

I'm not sure if the water was on or off when he turned it over. I wasn't there but I was wondering if just having the hose on would push water up into the engine? If so, wouldn't that provide enough water for the temp sensor to read something?

 

[ziggy]

Re: Burnt up engine?

as far as the temp sensor, if there is no water in the block the sensor wont show anything, it has to have water on the tip to get a true reading.

a good day today, i learned something new.........thanks for the correction rb.....

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Burnt up engine?

That's why the nurse puts the thermometer under your tongue instead of having you just hold in your mouth. The tip would otherwise measure the temp of the air in your mouth otherwise. Same principle with water or air in the engine.

 

[newport dave]

Re: Burnt up engine?

He still should have got a low seapump pressure alarm.

 

[Robj]

Re: Burnt up engine?

I'm not entirely sure of the no water thing. Granted if there is water in there it will measure the water or steam temperature. But even with no water, if it got hot enough to burn the paint, then I would think that the air temperature in the cavity must have also gotten real hot, which is what the temp gauge would be reading.

Warranty claims are for manufacturers defects, it sounds to me that this was a case of human error, and not sure if it will cover the damages. If your friend would have carefully read his owners manual this may have never happened.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[brunolund]

Re: Burnt up engine?

let us know about the condition of the impeller first, but i would take it to a different dealer to have the impeller inspected if you don't want to do it yourself.

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Burnt up engine?

Sounds like Your Friend burned up his Motor. big time bummer.

 

[pa_boda]

Re: Burnt up engine?

The last I heard is that the impeller was fried and the impeller shaft was broken. I don't think they had the engine apart yet but originally they said there was no water in the engine. I think they determined that by taking out the water plug clear on the bottom of the new "easy draining" system they put on those engines now. So I guess the next question is how would an impeller shaft break? Would I be correct in assuming that if they found no water in the engine that none ever got to it from the start...either through the hose or the lake. Or, if it got as hot as it looked would the water boil out of the engine?

I'm off to the lake for the weekend!

 

[Don S]

Re: Burnt up engine?

My guess and that is all it is, is that the plugs used to drain the raw water pump during winterization were either not in the pump, loose, or cracked. With no plug, broken or loose plug on the intake line, the pump would never suck water ..... only air.
In the owners manual, there is a section that tells how to recommission a boat and verify there is water pumping. It's not uncommon for the plugs to break, or even be forgotten during winterization. Who knows, they may have been left out intentionally for the winter. And were in a plastic bag some where.
Like rodbolt mentioned earlier, have the one that winterized it, dewinterize. Then they are aware of what to check.
The pump shaft probably broke because of the heat. The boat basically should have never went to the water without varification that water was pumping on muffs. (2 to 3 minutes won't even overheat an engine without water.) But he could have felt the manifolds and risers. They would have been hot.
Even if it was impossible to run on muffs, he should have at least put it in the water, started it and with the engine hatch open, let it run, for a while and feel the manifolds and risers and the engine and determine if everything is working before taking off at full blast.
Boats have requirements. Most are in the owners manual. If the owners don't read or/and understand that manual then they loose engines, and drives, and sometimes complete boats.

 

[Coors]

Re: Burnt up engine?

Look at it this way: If it is 100 degrees outside, and you start a cold engine- does the gauge jump up to 100 right away?

If your home water heater has no water, does the thermostat sense the hot air inside it, from the heating element glowing?

No. Made to sense water, not air.

They both are not thermometers.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Burnt up engine?

Boats have requirements. Most are in the owners manual. If the owners don't read or/and understand that manual then they loose engines, and drives, and sometimes complete boats.

Ayuh,......... That's how I read it too..........

A Warranty claim is almost Laughable.......

 

[pa_boda]

Re: Burnt up engine?

I seen my buddy this weekend and the latest info is he says the dealer winterized it and left the plugs in a bag on the dashboard. He put the plugs in and did turn it over just to check the battery but did not run it. Put the muffs on and started it.....ran for 2 or 3 minutes. Says he had a guy in back who said water was coming back out of the lower unit (which seems impossible if the dealer said there was only about a cup of water in the engine but who am I to say). Now they are talking about a complete drop in motor for $11,000 or so. So, I'm getting the message that either the impeller burned up right away and never sent water to the engine or the engine was sucking air somehow either through cracked or loose plugs or something else.

Is there a good reason for the dealer to refuse to put the plugs back in the boat when he winterizes? I've had different mechanics do different things. I'd rather have them put them back in. Another question.....does $11,000 sound fair for a new drop in Mercruiser (350 mag)?

Thanks for all your responses

 

[Bondo]

Re: Burnt up engine?

Is there a good reason for the dealer to refuse to put the plugs back in the boat when he winterizes?

Ayuh,......

With Dry Winterization,...The drain plugs get thrown onto the Intake manifold,......
Or in a baggie in your case....
During Summerization,.... The Drain plugs are Reinstalled....

 

[pa_boda]

Re: Burnt up engine?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of dry versus wet winterization besides the cost of the anti-freeze? (I assume they use RV anti-freeze right?)

 

[Bondo]

Re: Burnt up engine?

Ayuh,......

There have been a few Wars about the Dry Vs; Wet storage,...
Do a Search,......

I say that if you Know enough about your boat,...
That you can find,+ Drain every cavity that can hold enough water to do Damage,.....
Air just Doesn't Freeze,...... Period, end of sentence....

The Antifreeze method is Easier,......
It's also Easier to Screw it Up as well.......

 

[ziggy]

Re: Burnt up engine?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of dry versus wet winterization

antifreeze offers corrosion protection. that's the only benifit i'm aware of for antifreeze........ dry is fine too. it just don't offer corrosion protection..... when i've winterized dry. i've left the plugs in their proper places and tightened to prevent rust on the cast iron screw threads. + i know where they are when spring comes...... i winterize w/anti freeze now, after i totally drain the whole thing to air.....

the way i read the service manual on mine is. winterizing to air is for extending the season. winterizing with anti freeze is for layup......

 

[gator58]

Re: Burnt up engine?

I am the buddy of pa boda with the overheated engine As pa boda told you I had the dealer i bought the boat from winterized the boat I had asked them to put the plugs back back in and they refused to do so. I put the plugs back in and put muffson All hoseas were attached. We ran the boat for 2 t0 3 minutes and checked for leaks and water flow and all were fine When we put boat in water it ran for about 20 minutes before it started to smoke and we shut it down When the guy from marina showed up he checked bottom engine plug and the moptor was dry. Should there be any warranty Also I talked to my insurance agent and she thinks I might hav aclaim. She turned it in and it will be 2 weeks before an inspector will be here to look at it. Anyone know anything about that? Also the dealer wants to put in a new drop in motor complete for about $15000- $16000. That sounds a little high. Any thoughts on that or would I be as well off with a remanufactured engine with a 1 year warranty Any thought would be appreciated as I am not feeling to smart right now. Thanks gator58