95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
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Hello all. I am a newbie to iboats. Found some great advice on this web site from other peoples posts. My problem description may be a bit wordy, but I guess more details may offer more clues to the source of the problem.

I have a 1995 23? Wellcraft Coastal with a Johnson 200 OceanPro with 350 hours. The power head was dealer rebuilt in 2006 due to failed piston, rings, and scored walls in two cylinders. The motor has worked pretty well for about two years until at the end of last season it started to ?cut out? at 2500 ? 3000 rpm when attempting to plane. This is what I mean by ?cutting out? ? the motor will sound fine until throttled up and it sounds as if the motor is being turned off and back on at four or five times a second. I throttle back as soon as I hear the motor cutting off and on. The problem is intermittent. I can often shutdown the motor, wait a minute, restart and not have a problem planing. However, the problem is becoming more frequent. I don?t run the motor hard. Cruising speed is ~20kts at 3800 RPM. Current compression checks at between 95 and 108 psi which is what the compression was (from memory) before the ?cutting out? problem began. The alarm does not sound when the motor cuts in and out. I replaced the alarm driver at the beginning of this season and confirmed operation with the temperature switch test as described in the Clymer?s manual. The alarm key test also works. I replaced the main fuel filter, (can?t reach the in-line bolder catcher just before the VRO), decarbed with Valvetec aerosol and replaced plugs with OEM Champions gapped to manual specs (.030). The Champs that were removed were pretty dark. The side electrodes were black with baked on carbon. I ran the boat a day after the decarb and chunks of carbon floated to the surface at while warming the motor in the water. The motor worked well at first and planed quickly. Ran up to 4500 RPM and all was well. Shutdown and restarted a few time with no problems. Then about a half hour into the test I attempted to plane and the motor cut off and on while trying to plane, again about five times a second. So i limped back at 6 kts and called it a day. At this point I am figuring the problem may be caused by a faulty coil, stator, power pack, or possible fuel flow ? but I am not getting fuel flow alarms. I do have the Clymer?s shop manual, but do not have any of the ?specialty? tools, such as meter attenuator, spark plug tester, etc. Could a cyl have less compression when warmed? Sound like an electrical problem coils, power pack, etc? Any ideas or advice of what to check?
 

Benny1963

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Sep 17, 2006
Messages
1,476
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

you need to check spark simple spark tester from parts store .
you lugging your motor running low rpms ,a decarb may bring comp nubers up
check you fuel system ,carbs may be fouled .do you have a manual
if not get one repost after spark check you may also havs slow feature shutting down some cyls you will need manual to trouble shoot
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
Messages
37
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

Thanks Benny. I'll get a spark tester and check ignition. Will the spark tester indicate a problem at lower RPM that often occurs around 3k RPM?
 

Benny1963

Lieutenant
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Sep 17, 2006
Messages
1,476
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

no but your timeing light will it just takes two people there are some guys on here that can lead you in the right direction ,im hopeing to keep your thread alive does your motor have slow mode if so search post on slow mode ,
will be watchin
 

Benny1963

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Sep 17, 2006
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1,476
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

man i just read your post a little better you will also need to change that filter and check your entire fuel sys if you havent done carbs in a while you
may need to rebuild sounds like a carb prob .
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
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37
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

Prepping for this season. Last season intermittent prob remained, priming while stuttering had no effect. Just eplaced in-line fuel filter, compression is ok, , have six carb rebuild kits, ordered in/lb torque driver, will make the orifice driver, have Clymer manual. The manual has torque specs for most of the carb screws/bolts, but says 'tighten the orifice securely'. Does anyone know how tight the orifices should be? Got the torque driver to avoid cracking the Minlon/composite material and stripping threads.. Really dont want to guess here. Many thanks..
 

Fl_Richard

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Jan 21, 2005
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1,428
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

I have same boat and motor (twin V6 150's) and had the same problem. My fix was power pack. Hard to diagnose because they frequently fail intermittantly. My problem was almost identical though. Started happening infrequently then every trip out then several times each trip eventually quit completely and came home on one motor. That made it easier to diagnose :) If your's is bad get the new digital replacement pack from CDI. I hear their awesome! You've got three dual coils so I doubt it's one of them. One bad would cause a stumble but not the turn off condition you explained. Intermitttant turn off to me indicates power pack, stator, optical sensor or wiring problem. With the foam finger most likely pointing to power pack. The others can be easily tested and eliminated.


I LOVE my boat!

Good luck!
Richard
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
Messages
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Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

The problem started again which is an intermittent waa-waa-waa-waa at 3k+ rpm. I backed off to about 2k rpm for 15 minutes, and got up on plane with no problems. Did some work yesterday. Checked ignition with a spark tester set to 7/16?. All six jumped the distance. Rebuilt the carb mains, found that the #6 carb's float was sticking. The float would get stuck down or up. The hinges were misaligned. The replacement float worked fine with the original pin. Will go out on Friday to see if this solves the problem. We'll see.
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
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Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

The motor sounded great on the way out, but acted up on the way to the second spot. Heard that waa-waa-waa-waa and the motor bucked at 3k rpm while trying to plane. This is an intermittent problem, can start to happen even if running fine at 4k rpm. Backed down to 2k and limped home. At least the carbs are clean from the rebuild. Am considering a new power pack, as suggested by FL_Richard. The '95 has six single ignition coils, and conventional timer base. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 

badman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
117
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet but have you checked your carbueretter fast running jet? sounds like a blockage to me.
If it's not that it could be a dirty fuel filter or check your lines for air leaks and perished hose.
It does seem as though the engine is struggling for fuel at the higher rpm's.
keep posting your results hey?
Curious now!
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
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Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

Thanks for looking at this post. I rebuilt the carbs this week, replaced the valve seats, valves, floats, and gaskets, removed and cleaned the low and high speed orifices with carb cleaner and ran a few strands of wire through them. Both the fuel/water separator and the small in-line fuel filter before the VRO are new. Also tried pumping the primer bulb while the waa-waa-waa-waa condition was happening, but had effect. I'm not sure if the problem is with the power pack, rectifier/regulator, VRO, timer base, or internal part or other. I have the manual, but the problem is intermittent, tough to diagnose.
 

jonesg

Admiral
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Feb 22, 2008
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7,198
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

Get a factory shop manual.
www.outboardbooks.com
Clymer is a nice beer mat.

Carbs are good
compression good
spark gap tests ok.

You need to try as endsmgr said, a timing light when it starts acting up.
That will tell you if its the spark going intermittent at speed.
But it won't indicate which part of the ignition system is failing.

With the proper manual and a DVA meter you can track it down, get a DVA meter off ebay ( they're on ebay all the time) .
Or just splurge for a power pack and take a chance thats the problem.

In the meantime read through these tests for v6 optical ignitions.
http://www.maxrules.com/fixomcoisignition.html

you can also build your own DVA adapter to use with a multimeter cheap.
This took me a couple hrs fiddling around but it works.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=2016261#post2016261
 

23coastal

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Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

Thanks for the manual link. Will consider the Johnson shop manual beside Clymer. Also looks like the VRO2 is servicable, as each chamber is screwed or bolted together. I may also look in that direction, figuring the problem is either ignition or fuel flow. Tried squeezing the primer bulb during the problem, didnt help, so i figure the problem is not before the vro2 - fuel lines, etc. Regarding power packs, know if the CDI 113-6212 power pack is OEM or a drop in for a 1995 J200TXEOC?
 

mikesea

Lieutenant Commander
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Oct 1, 2006
Messages
1,830
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

you may have a s.l.o.w. mode on your engine,it stops eng from running over 2500??on the port cyl.head there is a sensor with white and black(if I recall right)disconnect the sensor and see what happens,mine went bad about 6 months ago ,I had a spare ,replaced it and problem was solved.The symptoms were like a bucking,as you say,eng on ,off on,off.Im not positive,but I think just disconnecting the sensor will take it out of the system,simple disconnect,sensor allows a ground to the s.l.o.w .Report back,thats how we learn
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
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Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

After disconnecting the temperature sensor the problem remained. Know where the s.l.o.w. circuitry resides? Maybe s.l.o.w is engaging, but not by the sensor. The problem happens at 3k+ rpm. This is an intermittent problem. Sometimes if i back down for a few minutes and power up the problem goes away, other times not.
 

23coastal

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May 31, 2008
Messages
37
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

I replaced the original power pack with a new one from CDI - also equiped with quickstart and s.l.o.w. features. All the color-coded connectors matched perfectly! The motor ran well during a post fix test run and didnt miss a beat while running hard chasing schools of erratically moving bait fish. Since the problem was intermittent I cannot yet say that its fixed. However, I will go further out next time. i hope to report back with news that the motor is fixed.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

sounds like you found the problem.!
Slow and quickstart are always internal to the PP.
 

23coastal

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
37
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

OK.. Let's call this one SOLVED! Ran great today with no problems. The new CDI power pack is working great. Got the one with quickstart, slow, and 8k rpm limit. (wont be pushing past 5k though) I just read my original post, where I didnt have the necessary tools. Well the tool and test equipment inventory has grown and I learned a lot while troubleshooting. Many thanks to those in the forum. I hope to give some good advise, even if its 'get a manual' or 'get the needed tools'. Many thanks..
 

23coastal

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
37
Re: 95 Johnson 200 Cuts in/out while trying to plane

The motor, '95 oceanpro 200, is still working like a champ! The new power pack was the fix. Many thanks to those in the forum.
 
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