Having your boat searched?

Titanium48

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
303
Re: Having your boat searched?

I had a run in with him and ended up in jail and eventually in court. He didn't know I got affidavits from 4 people nearby on shore. The judge reprimanded him for no cause. Now I am a marked man.

Judges should be able to fire LEOs for BS like that.
 

12vMan

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,536
Re: Having your boat searched?

Sure! You have a right to say no, but..if they had some reason, or their own version of probable cause to single you out in the first place then what do you think saying 'no' will make them THINK:rolleyes:
 

Shizzy

Ensign
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
984
Re: Having your boat searched?

The best way is to avoid being targeted in first place. In my case he was over 300 yards away when engaging in stopping me, verified by 4 witnesses I did not know. But do what you can do. Keep people seated while underway, watch no wake zones etc.....They will take any little opportunity to search a boat in order to find something bigger.

thats true for any vehicle. Boat, car, Motorcycle, etc. Keep a low profile and dont do anything to draw attention.
 

m&m252

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
158
Re: Having your boat searched?

man, i think if you werent pissed @ the time of the search i'm sure you will be by the time this thread keeps getting hits/responses... i feel what really bothers you is the fact you were minding your own business not doing any harm to the enviroment etc, and this guy had to ruin your day . i agree with you ,they should spend their time,our tax$$$,fuel expense,manpower,and the idiot that is out there ruining our relax time on the water...
 

m&m252

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
158
Re: Having your boat searched?

man, i think if you werent pissed @ the time of the search i'm sure you will be by the time this thread keeps getting hits/responses... i feel what really bothers you is the fact you were minding your own business not doing any harm to the enviroment etc, and this guy had to ruin your day . i agree with you ,they should spend their time,our tax$$$,fuel expense,manpower,on the idiot that is out there ruining our relax time on the water...
 

Neverhome

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
86
Re: Having your boat searched?

LEOs are people just like the rest of us. Some are smart, some not so smart,
some are respecfull and others are arrogant, some helpful, some a hinderance. As a free society we naturally resent being stopped for no apparant reason and having our hackles raised when asked for permission to search is certainly understandable. I don't like it anymore than the next man.

But, what we do not always know is why they ask to search. They could be on the lookout for suspected criminals, drug runners, impaired operators or any number of things and your particular boat could just coincidentaly fit the description of the one they are looking for. That happend to me while in a car one time. They may stop and search several boats in one area so no one can say they illegally singled one out, much like the road blocks they run here in Maine to check for expired or suspended licenses. They do not have the right to single any one car out but if they have a formula, such as every fifth car, the court has ruled it is legal to make a stop/check. They are not required to tell us why they want to search and we have a perfect right to refuse if we so choose. But if they are polite and you have nothing to hide, what does it hurt? Sure, if they are rude you could make an issue out of it with thier superiors, but as stated in a post above, all that is going to do is to mark you for further harrassment. I have never been treated badly by the local water police or the marine patrol and have been stopped in the past while simply cruising along at about 4 knts in a 12' boat. Respect begets respect. And a calm demeanor even in the face of aggressiveness on the part of a LEO will rarely get you "cuffed and stuffed".

I do recommend though that for those of us who are licensed and carry firearms on board you should be sure to tell the boarding officer that you do have a firearm on board. It will prevent a lot of problems. If you are not breaking any laws you should not have any problems.

Neverhome
 

alamosaddles

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
104
Re: Having your boat searched?

you best back up, DNR, Coast Guard, Marine patrol, local water police, have the authority to board you boat at any time. you refusal will get you arrested, and boat confiscated. a marijuana seed in a boat will get your boat confiscated. it is a '0" tolerance law, here.

I'm not familiar with them, but is the DNR a LEA with sworn officers?
 

alamosaddles

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
104
Re: Having your boat searched?

Another neighbor's kid joined the CG. He quit after a year or so citing that he wanted to help people, but the CG wanted to hassle people. I hope this is not true of all CG groups.

Would like to know the story behind that....You can't just quit the Coast Guard. You have a military obligation for a give term. Can't quit like a regular job.

As a former CG member, I'll tell you the CG mission is not, has not ever been to "hassle people". CG members routinely place themselves at risk to rescue mariners in distress. I don't see safety equipment inspections to be hassling people and for the most part, if a CG crew boards a vessel and continues searchng after doing a safety gear inspection, it's because of suspicious activity which they have witnessed or been directed to.
 

alamosaddles

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
104
Re: Having your boat searched?

While I am certain the CG is a wonderful thing in an emergency situation, I don't give them many cudos for anything else. Truthfully, the vast majority of their time is non-emergency and they are bored to tears and LOOK for something to do in the hopes of some excitement.

The coast guard always has things to do....Do you really think they only work during emergency situations? Who do you think maintains your waterways, the bueys, the day board markers? The seventh district (florida/carribean area) is working pretty much daily, non stop doing drug interdiction and immigration operations. Just because you don't see it on the news doesnt mean they weren't working. The WMEC (medium endurance cutters) 210 footers are constantly plucking hatians and cubans out of the water and repatriating them, and then doing drug chases and interdictions at night.

Sorry to hear that you were harrased repeatedly with safety checks, but a quick call to the CG station and a polite conversation with the Oficer on duty would likely have corrected any innapropriate issue.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Having your boat searched?

I think that the OP is correct about some things and incorrect about others.

The state of Missouri speaks to the issue of the officer's authority as a "water patrol officer." While the law doesn't specifically state that this includes DNR officers, I doubt very much that it does not. The law is probably written that way to cover DNR and county/local water patrols. What the law states is this:

306.165. Each water patrol officer appointed by the Missouri state water patrol and each of such other employees as may be designated by the patrol, before entering upon his or her duties, shall take and subscribe an oath of office to perform all duties faithfully and impartially, and shall be given a certificate of appointment, a copy of which shall be filed with the secretary of state, granting all the powers of a peace officer to enforce all laws of this state, upon all of the following:

1) The waterways of this state bordering the lands set forth in subdivisions (2), (3), (4), and (5) of this section;

(2) All federal land, where not prohibited by federal law or regulation, and state land adjoining the waterways of this state;

(3) All land within three hundred feet of the areas in subdivision (2) of this section;

(4) All land adjoining and within six hundred feet of any waters impounded in areas not covered in subdivision (2) with a shoreline in excess of four miles;

(5) All land adjoining and within six hundred feet of the rivers and streams of this state;

(6) Any other jurisdictional area, pursuant to the provisions of section 306.167;

(7) All premises leased or owned or under control of the Missouri state water patrol.

Each water patrol officer may board any watercraft at any time, with probable cause, for the purpose of making any inspection necessary to determine compliance with the provisions of this chapter. Each water patrol officer may arrest on view and without a warrant any person he or she sees violating or who such patrol officer has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state, upon any water or land area subject to his or her jurisdiction as provided in this section or may arrest anyone violating any law in his or her presence throughout the state. Each water patrol officer, while investigating an accident or crime that was originally committed within such patrol officer's jurisdiction, as set forth in this section, may arrest any person who he or she has probable cause to believe has committed such crime, even if the suspect is currently out of the water patrol's jurisdiction. Water patrol officers, if practicable, shall notify the sheriff or the police department prior to making an arrest within their respective county or city. Each water patrol officer shall comply with the training and certification provisions of chapter 590, RSMo.



So, Missouri water patrol officers are, in fact police officers with the usual authority to stop a vessel inspect it, etc., under certain circumstances.

It is also interesting to note that the state of Missouri has a specific law covering refusal to allow inspection, or interference with inspection. As such, I would say that anyone in the state that thinks he/she should say no to a safety inspection, better know the entire set of laws on the matter extremely well. The law is as follows:

306.215. Any person who refuses or interferes with the inspection of any boat or vessel located upon the waters of this state, when such inspection is conducted for the purpose of determining compliance with the provisions of this chapter, shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(L. 1985 H.B. 280, et al. ? 1)



As for the search, I think the OP is right - in the state of Missouri, it appears that officers must have probable cause. I don't know that I have an opinion on the matter of granting permission to search or not, that could be considered to be universally applicable. In most circumstances I would probably let officers search my boat because there is nothing on it that I care about them seeing. I can see the wisdom in not automatically allowing this, however.

Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I am pretty much a big supporter of marine law enforcement. I think that they do an excellent job 99% of the time, and are a lot more of an enhancement to my boating experience, than they are a detriment to it. That said, giving up the right to be free of unnecessary and inapproriate searches and/or infringement of civil liberties, is usually not a good idea. What I do think I would do if I felt the search was out of line, would be to be very polite about saying no. Something along the lines of "Officer, I would prefer that you not search my boat because I have nothing illegal on it, you have no reason to believe that I do have something illegal, and I would prefer to return to enjoying my day immediately. I do appreciate your checking my vessel for safety, however, and I hope you have a nice day too." I think this makes the point that you won't grant consent in a non confrontational way. But, if the officers insisted on doing a search, I would not interfere and would deal with the issue of probable cause later - its much easier to raise cane if you get to go home right away, than it is if you get yourself arrested for "interfering with an investigation."

As a final note, I don't live in Missouri and haven't boated there, yet I was able to find the information on the state's laws quickly. So many times, I see posts or hear opinions on such things in various places, yet no one seems to actually look the information up. With the advent of the internet, its really simple to do so, and I recommend that people take advantage of that. Its a lot easier to know what you should and should not do, when confronted by law enforcement, if you actually know what the laws are!


PS: As another person who is former Coast Guardsman, I need to stick up for "the guys," so consider these facts:

Today, the Coast Guard will:

?Save 10 lives
?Assist 192 people in distress
?Protect $2.8 million in property
?Interdict 14 illegal migrants at sea
?Conduct 109 search and rescue cases
?Seize $9.6 million worth of illegal drugs
?Educate 502 people in Boating Safety Courses
?Respond to 20 oil and hazardous chemical spills
?Conduct 19 maritime security boardings


Trust those of us who have been there when we say that the CG has better things to do than to harass people. I think its also worth pointing out that, during the time period immediately after Hurricane Katrina, when all the other agencies (local state and federal) were tripping all over themselves trying to figure out what to do, the Guard was already rescuing people in large numbers. They had already taken many steps to immediately implement planned operations, and they were "out there" saving people all day, every day, for many days, getting the job done. I am so proud of "my Coast Guardsmen" (women too) that I could bust. Semper Paratus to all!
 

rthomas

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
155
Re: Having your boat searched?

i dont have a problem showing papers and safety gear, but when it comes to a full on search probable cause is the key word, years ago i delt with this issue on the street with the local head beaters and it didnt take long to figure out that you didnt need to give consent, instead you could say something to the effect of: if you feel you have probable cause then you dont need my permission, if you dont feel you have probable cause then you dont have permission. when dealing with any LEA make sure you document for yourself names and badge#'s of those you deal with, by doing this they know if you feel you had a bad encounter it can be easily be traced back to them.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Having your boat searched?

This is what make me the most upset:

After they had left I asked why and he said he was afraid not to. He thought they had the right to demand it anyhow.


And this is the proper way to handle it:

What I do think I would do if I felt the search was out of line, would be to be very polite about saying no. Something along the lines of "Officer, I would prefer that you not search my boat because I have nothing illegal on it, you have no reason to believe that I do have something illegal, and I would prefer to return to enjoying my day immediately. I do appreciate your checking my vessel for safety, however, and I hope you have a nice day too."

It is important for all of us as Americans to know and exercise our rights. I think safety checks are an important thing, however I get very upset when I hear stories like Bubba1235's where on vacation he was stopped EVERYDAY. This is absolutely rediculous. They should do the check and then issue a sticker that is valid for a period of time. I know they do this in some places and I have no idea why it isn't universal. This is "hassling" at it's worst.
 

jeeperman

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,513
Re: Having your boat searched?

I think safety checks are an important thing, however I get very upset when I hear stories like Bubba1235's where on vacation he was stopped EVERYDAY. This is absolutely rediculous.

Yea but if your wife likes to sunbath topless, you will get a safety check by every agency on the water, several times a day!.
 

jeeperman

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,513
Re: Having your boat searched?

BTW,
Bubba has not confirmed if they were fishing or not. It was the DNR and if there was any fishing equipment on board they might want to check for under size fish. Which might have been hidden in any little compartment.
 

ThePostMan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
75
Re: Having your boat searched?

I'm just adding this point for clarification, because there seems to be a lot of discussion over which agencies have a right to search your boat without a warrant. . .the answer is NONE. Zero, zip, zilch. Not the Coast Guard, not the DNR, not the local Sheriff, nor anyone else who patrols the water. The Fourth Amendment guarantees you that.

Now, what you choose to do with that protection is your own business. Frankly, if I'm chilling in a cove and relaxing, they can search my boat all day long, just put everything back where it came from. If I'm underway and/or have somewhere to go, I am sorry, but I don't wish to submit to a warrantless search. No offense, I have nothing to hide, but I just don't have the time to entertain the officers until their shift ends.
 

npd4432

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
468
Re: Having your boat searched?

I live on a small lake and leave my boat moored in the water during the season. Every year the PFBC (Pensylvania Fish and Boat Commission) climbs aboard at my dock and does a safety inspection for all the normal gear, vests, fire extinguisher, ect, ect, ect. I dont really have a problem with this until the same officer wants to do the inspection for a fourth and fifth time throughout the same season. I always allow him to do what he wants but kindly tell him the same stuff is in the boat from the time I put it into the water until the time I take it out. Enough already. BTW the PFBC has the authority to search under the guise of a "safety inspection". I have a big problem with this as also being employed by a law enforcement agency I would be fired for doing this with a car.
 

ThePostMan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
75
Re: Having your boat searched?

I guess I consider "search" and "inspect" to be two different things. If they want to check my PFDs, flares, registration, etc. . .have at it. And if they can verify that I have all of the required safety gear, cool.

But if they want to start opening hatches and the glove box, and calling it a "safety inspection", no way. That's a search, not an inspection. They won't find anything but paperwork and sunscreen in there, but I tend to stick to principles.
 

INJUN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
358
Re: Having your boat searched?

In CT, authorities have authority to stop and board boats to check for compliance with fed/state law or to search without warrant, upon probable cause that other laws have been violated.

That's okay with me, I'm a law abiding citizen and am willing to help them out if called upon.

I have heard countless stories about how being courtious can get you a warning instead of a citation. It's a different story (to me) if they ain't.

My2cent.
 

ThePostMan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
75
Re: Having your boat searched?

Not to beat a dead horse, and/or disagree with you, Injun. . .but no, they do not have the right to search without a warrant, ever. If they have PC, they may use that to get said warrant. . .but no authority anywhere in the country can search anything without a warrant, unless you consent to it.

It's no big deal, I don't think the kind of people who pack their boats with weed and fireworks are the type who hang out on this forum. . .but it's always good to know exactly what the law is and isn't!

:D
 
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