Lund Nisswa Restoration

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Good box.

The peanut butter will be fine. Even using wood flour, only the wood particles that have surface exposed to the water (are not fully epoxy covered) will have any rot happen... so only the first layer of wood will show any color change, and not even that unless you do a really poor job mixing it.

Cabosil of course won't have any problems, nor milled glass.

You are allowed to move the drain plug if you want... just make sure you don't go too close to the bottom in case the hull cracks between the drain hole and the bottom of the boat... some boats sit exactly on that part of the hull on the trailer or when beached.

Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

OK, managed to get a bit done today.
Ramped up the keel to better meet the drain hole, actually went about 1 inch-tapering to zero.
Then applied 1708 across width of transom to wrap down onto the hull.
Then PL'd in the two outboard stringers.

Now to wait for the PL to cure so I can start climbing up the sides of the stringers with two layers of 1708.

Lund

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

man...lund.....

your just rockin on this thing......looks really really good.......


and btw erik....as far as posting good info with small picks....its tough...when you enlarge the screen to see the pic...it distorts......

we gotta figgure somthing out......sooooo much can be lost in the archives....some times the search doesnt work as well as we want....

cheers guys.....and again ...lund...great job

oops

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Help!!!!!!!!!!
OK fiber glassing the first stringer in basically kicked my butt, took six hours from start to finish, I just cannot seem to get this 1708 as transparent as I would like, have used way too much resin as well, either way, the one outboard is filleted, and has two layers of 1708 on it.
I used a wet out table, which seemed to help.
Alot of the resin would run out by gravity and pool at the lowest point, this indicated to me that I had it saturated, I used brush/roller and bubble roller but some areas still appears whitish, especially in the overlapping areas. The other area I have trouble with is up the side toward the tops, I cannot get them to hold the resin at all, am I on track here or should I be doing something different?

Tell me if I am screwing this up please.
I sanded lightly, and acetoned the heck out of the areas 2 hours prior to starting.

Lund

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Second Stringer went alot better, had a second man on the ground making peanut butter/wetting out the 1708/making Resin, took us 1.5 hours to fillet and lay up two layers 1708 on a 12 foot stringer. I had precut 50" pieces to proper widths, went really well.

After further evaluation they look pretty darn good, and they are in there like Iron. A bit of grinding here and there to get rid of some resin puddles and I will be ready to PL in the Inboard stringers.

I have a question for you guys, if I have some puddling that I did not catch should I grind that off, does it degrade strength? I had quite a bit of run off down to where my next stringer fillet will be.

The wet out table is mandatory in my opinion with 1708,
I just used thick plastic with a dam on all sides so the stuff doesn't run on the floor, this was child proof-just ask my helper!~

The other thing that is working really well for me is those cake decorating squeeze bags for the P-Butter, you can put down alot of fillet in short order, then all I had to do was use a 3inch junk-china brush and knock it into the shape needed, dabbing the brush once in a while lightly in resin to stop it from sticking.

Had to order more resin, ordered 6 more gallons total, if that gets me through the project I will have used 12 gallons total yield. Making ALOT of peanut butter and wetting out the 1708 is draining the resin fast.

Lund

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Hmmm, okay. First off, a useful trick with 1708 is to wet out the vertical part first.

What I do is put a layer of epoxy wet on the wood/glass where I'm glassing, thickly enough so it helps wet out the cloth. It'll also help the dry cloth adhere into place.

Then I place the dry cloth, making sure it's firm against the surfaces I'm glassing. I roll it into the resin that's there, being careful to press it against the underlying material.

Then I thoroughly wet out the vertical or upper surface first, and wait a few minutes or do something else to give the excess resin time to run down to the lower part, which helps wet it out.

Runoff resin won't weaken the joint... it just means there was too much resin in the cloth. You're right that a wetting table is needed to easily wet 1708 out... it's easy to get it too wet, though. Once you've wet it on the table, use a tray or table section for squeegeeing (is that a word?) out the excess resin. The ideal amount is just enough to glue every glass fiber together and completely wet the surface of the cloth, and no more. Usually people like us can't come close to that, we end up with about twice as much resin doing this by hand.

And now the part that worries me... looking at your pictures, I see that the cloth itself looks fine, especially the part against the stringers. But where the fillet is, I see that even though the cloth is wet out it has a large bubble of air behind it (or at least it looks that way).

Better check that out - it's the whitish area over the fillets.. drill through the glass with a small bit and see if that's an air gap, I can't quite tell from the pics.

If it's a big bubble as it looks like, then I'm afraid you'll need to fix it.. and the simplest way to do that is grind it off and start over.

Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Erik, I took some close ups, I know those look like large air bubbles all-over-the-place in the pix, but what it actually is the existing old channel that I had sticking out of floor at various heights, some areas I had to put putty above and below the old channel to fair the turn/or the old channel left too large of a "Ledge" that I had to fair. I do have some small air bubbles, no doubt about that! But most are quite small So if I do have a large air bubble, can I just grind the air bubble out and glass over that spot?

The one part that bothers me is toward the tops, gets very white up there.

OK, I will try to squeegee some of the extra resin out next time I use the wet-out table, I would think that may solve some of my runoff issues.

Lund

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Erik, I took some close ups, I know those look like large air bubbles all-over-the-place in the pix, but what it actually is the existing old channel that I had sticking out of floor at various heights, some areas I had to put putty above and below the old channel to fair the turn/or the old channel left too large of a "Ledge" that I had to fair. I do have some small air bubbles, no doubt about that! But most are quite small So if I do have a large air bubble, can I just grind the air bubble out and glass over that spot?
Lund

Yes, no need to remove the whole stringer. What you're trying to do is make sure there's no bubbles bridged over by glass, so you could actually fill them with resin with a syringe if you want... this is done with smaller bubbles mostly.

If you're confident that those are just old glass there, then you're probably good... if you have a bubble larger than a dime, or a lot of them, then I'd try to fill them, but unless you want to be anal there's no need to go nuts on less than 15 bubbles in a stringer that size.


Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Have been working on glassing in the stringers for the last several days, until I ran out of resin. I chased bubbles until the resin would start to kick.

Since I ran out of resin I pressed on with filling a void that was between the Transom edges and the hull, used tape to seal the 1/2 inch gap and poured two part foam down the void, worked very good, now I can glass the rest of the transom to the hull sides.

Thank goodness I had made good templates for the bulkheads prior to putting those stringers in, so I cut the front two Bulkheads today, and they fit very well.


Still awaiting the UPS man for the resin delivery, so there is an update.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Nice work so far... I especially like how clean the wood looks. It'll almost be a shame to cover it with glass.

I'm waiting on the UPS guy at the moment too.

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Finished glassing in Stringers and Transom Today.

I am overall disappointed in either my performance in fiberglassing or in the performance of the resin/cloth, I can tell you it is not for a lack of effort, it seems the resin just runs out from the tops, leaving them whitish, I have managed to keep the large bubbles to a minimum though, well that is gonna have to do.
Moving on to the bulkheads next. Cut to fit the last Bulkhead today also.
Lund

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

heh heh heh...i see whats goin on...its a pita...!...

lund...when you cut the fabric....cut it so the lines of the cloth go horizontal....your currently cutting so it goes vertical.....

let me try to re-explain this.....

in pic 4...of the last post....see the heavy lines of the 1708?...there running straight up and down against the stringer......when you wet it out, the glass falls down, flops over and is allmost impossible to get the glass to fully wet out and stick..you glass one end...and the other falls down...and you chase a loosing cause from end to end right?......cut the class so the heavy lines run with the legnth of the wood......

ok....see the direction of the cloth ?.......now see the edge of the glass closest to the camera?...(not the top)....that would be like the end grain on a peice of wood

does that look framilliar?........

the 1708....while a fantastic cloth...is finickey when cut against the grain...and glassed vertical
it tends to unravel....loop...and just basically end up being a mess.....

cut it the other way and youll speed your time on layups, and the aggrivation factor will be to a minimum.

cheers
oops

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Oops, Thanks for filling me in on the vertical lines of the 1708.

In those pictures, I had done alot of sanding/grinding toward the tops on all of the stringers except the inboards on the inboard sides 8 feet from the Transom, that was the last section I had to do that was done today.

I had been cutting across the roll, 50" pieces and then cutting the size I need. I wish I would have known at some point prior to doing these four stringers and Transom.
Either way, it is only the very tops that need ground off, and luckily I had capped these with 8 oz prior to installing them.
So will try this technique on the next lay-up.........Live and learn.
Thank you

Lund

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

yeah...i just figgered it out when i started the stringers.....the transom i cut the right way by luck.

but found out about it when i started the stringers.....thats why i had to cut the glass in such a screwy way...it took me 5 hrs

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

As much as I hate to show my crappy workmanship, here are the
Close ups of my feeble attempt at fiberglassing. This is the last 8 feet of Stringer that I applied two layers of 1708 to yesterday, as you can see toward the tops I get the whitish effect going on. No matter what I did all of the stringers turned out this way, I am considering grinding the tops and reapply another layer but this time cut the biax the other direction as Oops suggested.
There is 8 oz cloth over the tops of all stringers, I did this prior to bedding them in the boat.
Any suggestions; anyone?

Lund

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Work is getting in the way of boat building for a few days, but I did manage to get a layer of 8oz fabric on one side of the 3 bulkheads today, man that stuff went on like butter, not a wrinkle or void in it.

I plan on glassing the other side and then painting resin on the end grains to help water proof the ply. Would you guys do any more to help waterproof these bulkheads?

Lund

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

The drain out at the top of the layup is more common with epoxy and can be a real hassle at times. Try a little mat at the top, it will hold the resin better. Or you can just keep adding resin back to that area until it gels, but you have to keep checking on it untill it does.

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

you did really good with the ends of the cloth lund.....

as far as waterproofing th bulkheads....

i read an article some where that said, three coats of epoxy on a peice of wood was stupid strong, (as far as water penetration)

nearly 4 times as much as just 2 coats. 4 coats was a waste, as it was really over kill

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

yep I agree also she is looking really good !! Keeps the pic goiing!!1 John

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

heh heh heh....i got some pics for ya on my thread comin.....

after all that cutting i still found one or two peices that i cut the wrong way