No Spark! Help!!

[Hermyboy3000]

I can't get any spark. I've just installed new Pertronix Electronic Ignition, new coil, 1 year old rotor, 2 yr old spark plug cables, older distro cap (but in good shape, no cracks, no carbon, the posts are bright and clean).

Here is the story, my boat was running great 2 weeks ago, then by the end of the day it started to bog down then it died. I originally thought it was my Hot Spark ignition module, but then I tried reinstalling my points and condenser and I still couldn't get it started. So I we to paddle home.

My new coil that I installed today checks as good, my old one is good too (I think).

I have checked my voltage at the ignition switch, I have 12.3v when I turn the switch, I have 12.3v at the + side of the coil. When I try to start the motor the voltage at the + side of the coil drops to 10.1v (not sure if this is what's supposed to happen?).

When I pull the high tension cable of the distro cap and ground it the engine block I get a weak orange zap. This is where the problem may reside, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to diagnose the problem.

I have attached a spark plug tester to each of my plugs and I get NO spark at all.

Here are some of the specs
AQ130
New Battery (12.3v)
Solex carbs are rebuilt and working fine
fuel system is good
All was running great until I switched to EI, now even if I switch back to points I get nothin'!

 

[dlplost]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

check the clamp on the case of the coil, the can part of the coil must be grounded to the motor.
check the ground connection for your EI module, it must have another connection to ground besides the (-) to the coil, the module grounds/ungrounds the (-) coil connectin to fire the coil.
you have an ignition driven tach system, disconnect the tach from the coil, see if that helps, if there is a problem in the tach wire it will hurt the ignition.

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Coil is firmly grounded.

The Electronic Ignition is grounded in the distributor.

I've removed the tach wire and that didn't make a difference.

 

[Windykid]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Are you sure the points are set rite? And clean contacts?

 

[Windykid]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

You may also check the main engine ground.

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Windy, how do I go about checking my engine ground? Do I use a meter and check for voltage drops or resistance or something?

Would a bad ground cause the conditions I am explaining?

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Tried new spark cables and still no luck. I'm curious about the bad ground. My father-in-law recommended that I check for that too. What do I meter and in what order should I begin testing. Keep in made that this is an old '70 AQ130, the wiring is pretty simple. I've metered around for voltage drops and have resolved all those issues (I think). So, if I don't have a voltage drop or spike wouldn't this rule out a bad ground?

Need help! Thanks in advance!

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

I don't have a wiring diagram for this but what a ballast resistor or resistor wire or does the coil have a built in resistor, I thought when you went to electronic you had to rewire around this so that the ignition got the full 12v all the time and not just during starting.

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Internal ballast resistor, no resistor wire. It's a Pertronix ignition module, but I wasn't getting spark with points either.

 

[gdombroski]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

I have 12.3v when I turn the switch, I have 12.3v at the + side of the coil. When I try to start the motor the voltage at the + side of the coil drops to 10.1v

Here's what I know about Coils/Points/Pertronix/ESA/etc.
1.) Stock coils are 1.4 ohms. Did you upgrade yours to one of the higher output ones? Do you have an ESA? If so then you fried it which will prevent you from getting spark and starting. If you have an ESA disconnect its wires and try to start. These coils require a resistor on negative side between coil and ESA.

2.) If using stock coil then this. When in start should have 12+ volts at the coil. When in run should be about 7-8 volts. As 12 burns out points so a resistor or resistor wire is used to lower voltage. If you removed the resistor at the coil to get 12 volts at run then you've again fried the ESA. Pertronix instructions tell you to keep the resistor to coil and run the red wire to a 12 volt source at run which is spliced in just before the resistor wire or the in to the resistor block.
There are special Pertronix installation instructions for this dependant on engine that requires use of resistor setup to prevent ESA burnout.

I know because I did both of these at separate times. If it runs when ESA disconnected in either case I have additional info. on the resolutions. But, don't try to shift with ESA disconnected as it might create a much larger problem

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

My coil has got 3.4 ohm of resistance. It has an internal ballast resistor.

I don't know what an ESA is?

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

This from the Pertronix website, you might want to call their support guys to work through this with you.


http://www.pertronix.com/support/tips/default.aspx#a7

 

[Hermyboy3000]

No Spark! Help!! **Update**

No Spark! Help!! **Update**

My father-in-law came over yesterday and helped me track down the issue. We re-installed the points to see if the circuit was opening and closing while we manually rotated the crankshaft. We noticed that it was not doing that, upon inspection my father-in-law noticed that the coil was in a constant closed state; with this he was able to determine that one of the leads going to the coil was shorting out. Turns out my ignition wire from the ignition switch was shorting out with other wires on one of the ignition switch posts.

We isolated the the ignition wire by removing any other wires that were hooked onto that post. What do you know, the motor turned over!

After successfully getting the motor to turn we switched out the points and installed the Pertronix. Tried to start the motor, NO DICE! This stumped me, I yanked the Pertronix and slapped in my Hot-Spark ignition module and sure enough the motor fired right up! (Any clue what's up here?)

It's still not all roses and butterflies, after a few a minutes the motor starts to bog and sounds like it's fuel starved; when I give her gas she just dies (after about 2 or 3 minutes). I'm fairly confident that it's not a fuel delivery issue, because when the motor first starts up it runs strong and when I throttle it up the motor revs as it should.

(****ASSUMPTION WARNING HERE****)
Even though my coil has an internal resistor, I think it still needs an external resistor. After reading the Pertronix link that Boatin Bob posted, I think I should check my coil amperage maybe it's too high or sporadic. Just a guess, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

THE BOAT IS RUNNING AGAIN!! With points and a condenser. As it turns out my ignition switch was the source of my problems. The switch mechanism was very loose inside of it's metal casing. After wiring up the new switch, I bumped the motor and it sparked right up.

I initially started with the Hot Spark ignition module in the distributor. The Hot Spark module worked fine until the motor reached it's normal operating temperature, then the motor would bog down and die. I tested this theory by allowing the engine to cool down and restarting it, the same results occurred consistently.

After coming to terms with the Hot Spark not working I popped in the Pertronix module, this yielded zero results, there was no spark whatsoever. I think I might have a bum Pertronix module. <--- If someone has any insight into why this module would not be working, I'm all ears!)

I finally dropped in the old points and condenser, this worked like a charm, the boat fired right up. I left the motor running for an hour to see if it would bog down and die like the ignition module, but that never happened.

I'd love to hear your diagnoses on my ignition module problem.

 

[Windykid]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

I think your module is fried. With that said, you changed the ignition switch and removed excess wires from the coil. You didnt reinstall the wires on the coil?

When you put the points in and set the gap, make sure to set the dwell with a dwell meter.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

When you put the points in and set the gap, make sure to set the dwell with a dwell meter.

After that also double check the timing.

With the Pertronix in there did it even try to start while cranking and then stop when the key went from start to run?

 

[Hermyboy3000]

Re: No Spark! Help!!

Windy, There were/are no excess wires on the coil, just the ignition wire, wire from the condenser and the lead back to the tach.

Bob, the Pertronix never gave me anything, my starter would roll the motor, but I never got a spark.