idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

[forexsystemresearch]

First off, thanks to everyone for all the help so far with my first boat. You guys are great!!!

I have a 1989 force 125 that I just bought and have been fixing up and trying to get it running cherry.

I have changed plugs.
I decarbed tonight with seafoam spray( seems to run better and smoother)
I have synced the carbs so both butterflys are open at wide open throttle.

Overall it seems to run pretty nice, smooth at idle, very fast wide open.

My problem is that after syncing the carbs, the idle was too low and I had to turn the idle all the way in in order to get it to idle fast enough so it wouldnt die if I shift into gear. I even had to remove the retainer nut in order to screw the idle in further.

Any suggestions??? I must have another problem that is causing this.


Many thanks in advance,


Mike

 

[eurolarva]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

When you did the link and sync did you also adjust the mixture screws according to the manual? If the mixture adjust is not correct it can lead to poor idling.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

A worn engine with relatively low power or poor crankcase compression will need to have the idlle raised like that, or bad plugs could cause it too. However, if all else is OK, and other than too low idle, the engine runs well, then:

Timing is too far retarded. Get yourself an inductive timing light and check WOT timing. If you do it in the driveway without starting the engine, it should be 28 degrees. If you do it on the water at speed, it should be 30 degrees before top dead center. There are two marks on the flywheel above the ring gear. The first is 0 degrees. The second mark (to the left) on the flywheel should line up with the pointer on the manifold at WOT. This is the important setting and all else is secondary. Usually, timing at 30 degrees WOT with the idle stop screw set about midway of its travel is about +2 degrees BTDC at idle.

As a quick check, the gap between the two plastic pieces where linkage attaches to the trigger assembly USUALLY is somewhere between 3/8 to 1/2 inch. If it is closed way down so you can not see any threads on the adjusting screw, then it is too far retarded.

Since there is no speed compensating adjustment on timing, if it is too far retarded at WOT, then it will be too far retarded at idle.

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Thanks for the response. Im in South Florida, so the only place I could check the timing wide open would be the ocean and that would be pretty crazy as well as dangerous.

Im guessing its either timing or carb adjustment as the engine seems to run too nice to have bad pistons or rings.

Which would you recommend that I try first? Do you have to pull the flyweel to adjust timing? Im guessing yes.


Thanks,


Mike

 

[maxum247]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Negative, there's an adjustment rod right next to the flywheel on the starboard side of the engine, that's the right side of the engine standing behind the boat in the driveway.
You can check the timing in the driveway without starting the engine but you will need an inductive timing light to check it. max!

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

I hate to be a pain. I just bought a manual tonight off Ebay and it wont be here for a few days. My parents are visiting on Friday and we plan on taking my boat from Fort Lauderdale to Miami and I would love to adjust the timing before hand.

I am 99% positive that my problem is my timing is way retarted.

Could someone explain in detail how to adjust the timing in the driveway? Or if you dont feel like typing, could you scan and email me the page that explains it?


Thanks,


Mike
info@forexsystemresearch.com

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Judging from your reply about the flywheel, I surmise that you have not done much with these engines--so I will give a little more detail.

First, in the past I have posted lengthy replys on how to synchronize the carbs and timing. This is critical for good idling. Use the search function to see these posts.

Top cylinder is #1 and is used for timing.

Above the top carb and bolted to the manifold with the two top screws is a flat plate with a single line scribed in it. This is the reference line. When the left line on the flywheel (looking at the engine from in front of the carbs) matches this line, timing is at 30 degrees before Top dead Center. A smidge to the left of this line would be 28 degrees.

(Actually, there are 98 teeth on the flywheel and 360 divided by 98 is 3.7 degrees. So, one tooth on the flywheel is 3.7 degrees and you can now approximate 2 degrees less than 30--about 1/2 tooth.)

If static timing to 28 degrees in the driveway with the control in wide open throttle, the engine will not crank. You need a helper to jump the battery side of the solenoid to the yellow wire terminal or buy a remote starter switch. Take the plugs out so the engine will not start but be sure to ground all plugs so you do not damage the CD electronic boxes.

Now, if you follow the stainless rod (tower) that the carbs and idle stop screw connect to, at the top, just under the flywheel you will see the trigger finger and the two plastic connectors along with the adjusting screw. Screwing the adjuster so the two plastic blocks move together retards the timing. Moving them apart advances it. The screw is threaded opposite on both ends and if the unthreaded portion in the center is not substantially centered, you cannot get proper adjustment and you must remove at least one plastic connector and center the adjusting screw--then adjust the timing.

It is highly recommended to adjust timing in steps with the engine not turning since a slip can cause an emergency room visit.

 

[CFPena]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Judging from your reply about the flywheel, I surmise that you have not done much with these engines--so I will give a little more detail.

First, in the past I have posted lengthy replys on how to synchronize the carbs and timing. This is critical for good idling. Use the search function to see these posts.

Top cylinder is #1 and is used for timing.

Above the top carb and bolted to the manifold with the two top screws is a flat plate with a single line scribed in it. This is the reference line. When the left line on the flywheel (looking at the engine from in front of the carbs) matches this line, timing is at 30 degrees before Top dead Center. A smidge to the left of this line would be 28 degrees.

(Actually, there are 98 teeth on the flywheel and 360 divided by 98 is 3.7 degrees. So, one tooth on the flywheel is 3.7 degrees and you can now approximate 2 degrees less than 30--about 1/2 tooth.)

If static timing to 28 degrees in the driveway with the control in wide open throttle, the engine will not crank. You need a helper to jump the battery side of the solenoid to the yellow wire terminal or buy a remote starter switch. Take the plugs out so the engine will not start but be sure to ground all plugs so you do not damage the CD electronic boxes.

Now, if you follow the stainless rod (tower) that the carbs and idle stop screw connect to, at the top, just under the flywheel you will see the trigger finger and the two plastic connectors along with the adjusting screw. Screwing the adjuster so the two plastic blocks move together retards the timing. Moving them apart advances it. The screw is threaded opposite on both ends and if the unthreaded portion in the center is not substantially centered, you cannot get proper adjustment and you must remove at least one plastic connector and center the adjusting screw--then adjust the timing.

It is highly recommended to adjust timing in steps with the engine not turning since a slip can cause an emergency room visit.

Frank:

So, if I'm reading this correctly....Take the plugs out and ground the wires, set WOT, hook the timing light at #1 plug wire and crank the engine to adjust to 28 by turning the adjusting screw.

Thanks for sharing

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Also, whats the best way to ground the plugs? Do you need a seperate wire with alligator clips on each end for each plug?

Or do you just rest the plugs on the block?


Thanks,


Mike

 

[maxum247]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Frank:

So, if I'm reading this correctly....Take the plugs out and ground the wires, set WOT, hook the timing light at #1 plug wire and crank the engine to adjust to 28 by turning the adjusting screw.

Thanks for sharing

You don't want a trip to the emergency room "so do not attempt" to adjust the timing adjustment rod while cranking the engine! max!

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Yes, I understand that. But how do I ground out the plugs correctly? And everyone keeps mentioning wide open throttle. Im assuming that its tested by taping up the neutral safety switch and cranking it over in gear??

Thanks,


Mike

 

[CFPena]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

You don't want a trip to the emergency room "so do not attempt" to adjust the timing adjustment rod while cranking the engine! max!

Max:

I got it, take a reading, shut off the engine then make the adjustment, check again and adjust as needed.
Is the procedure that I described to Frank correct? If it is then I got it, if not can you please describe it?

Thanks for your concern. Even that I've never been to ER, I'd underwent several surgeries in my lifetime. Going to the hospital is never fun.

Take care.

Pena

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

BUMP


How do I ground out the plugs correctly? And everyone keeps mentioning wide open throttle. Im assuming that its tested by taping up the neutral safety switch and cranking it over in gear??

Thanks,


Mike

 

[maxum247]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

BUMP


How do I ground out the plugs correctly? And everyone keeps mentioning wide open throttle. Im assuming that its tested by taping up the neutral safety switch and cranking it over in gear??

Thanks,


Mike

Before checking and adjusting engine timing, first locate TDC for the no.1 piston, and make sure the TDC mark on the flywheel is aligned with the timing pointer. If not you would need to pull the flywheel and check for a sheared flywheel key or damaged key slot in the flywheel or crankshaft!

The proper way to ground the spark plugs is to use a spark tester designed for Force outboard motors that grounds to the engine block, then the spark plug wires plug onto it.

Use the"search" feature at the top of the page and search for Force engine timing procedures!


I may seem over cautious but I like to "remove the propeller" when doing any cranking test on my motor, especially if I might be standing next to it! max!

 

[forexsystemresearch]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

Is it really necessary that I buy the spark plug tester designed by Force in order to adjust the timing?

Is there another way to ground the plugs for someone that doesn't have all the sophisticated tools? Can I just rest the plugs on the block? Can I use a wire with alligator clips for each plug?

Thanks,


Mike

 

[maxum247]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

You can ground the plugs to the block or use alligator clips. If you ground the plugs to the block, ground them away from the head so you won't get a flame from the sparkplug holes in the head while cranking! max!

 

[rodsailor]

Re: idle screwed all the way in on 89 force 125

I use a set of jumper cables, with one end grounded to the motor and the the other gripping the threads on the spark plugs. I have large jaws on the cable ends, so I can get two plugs in one jaw. I normally clip on the spark tester to the jaw that has the two plugs gripped, and put the third wire to that, just so I can see that I have a good ground for all three.

Rod