Bearings heating up after change.

[Nandy]

I have change bearings before in cars but this is the first one for trailers. Well, I changed one side yesterday first but not too familiar with the bushing set up I found out today that I broke the seal by pining it with the bushing. I was installing the spindle nut washer that was not there when I took the old bearing set. I will have to replace that seal this weekend. I replaced the other side today before going to work. I put it back and took the boat for the ride. Once I made it to work the hub was very hot to the touch. I never felt bearings that hot. However... I installed 2 new Red Eye Bearing Buddy. The cotter pin from the spindle nut dug a "trench" in the inside of the bearing buddy.
My issue now is what is causing the heat situation, either is the cotter pin friction on the bearing buddy or the bearings itself....

In your experience, excluding the bearing buddies and missing grease, what else can cause extreme heat in the bearings?

I will post the Red Eye/cotter pin issue in a separate post as I think it is a separate issue on itself..

Thanks!

 

[DRIFTER_016]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Did you pack the bearings? Friction causes heat. The bearings need to be packed well and the space between the inner and outer bearings needs to be filled with grease. I hand pack and fill and then fill the bearing buddies. Make sure you don't over tighten the nut as well. I leave just tiny bit of end play, a couple of thou at most.

The last long trailering trip my boat trailer made was over 3000 miles in 5 days. Before the trip I repacked the bearings, checked electrical and replaced the tires. The hubs never were even warm to the touch.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

same question, you have to take a hand full of grease and work it into the roller bearing. then before i install the outer bearing i fill the cavity with grease.

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

i think the pin would make quite a bit of heat channeling out the cap, also sound like not enough grease or nut to tight or loose.

 

[Shizzy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

not enough grease, too snug on the nut?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

good point, you tighten down the nut the loosen 1/4 to 1/2 turn. to where the tire turns freely, too tight and you bind up the bearings.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Bearing were hand packed, hub was grease filled by hand, nut was tighten then turn 2 spaces back (about 1/4 turn) while I check for the tire to turn freely and have that almost not perceptible side to side movement. I might just take one of the bearing buddy out and see if there is any difference between the 2 hubs.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Took the Red Eye Bearing Buddy out of one hub and touch both hubs to make sure they were equally cold. Went for supper and took the panoramic route... Anyway, about 5 miles later I stopped and touch the hub without the Bearing buddy and it was as cold as before I moved the boat. Touched the one with the Red Eye and it was hot again, not as hot as before from the 20 some mile ride, but still hot. Made it back to work and the side without the Red Eye was still cold but the one with the Red Eye was hot, hot, hot... So the problem is definitely the friction between the bearing protector and the cutter pin. I have a post just dedicated to this issue so if you can reply to that one that will be great, here is the link.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=266036

Thanks!

 

[xxxflhrci]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

I put in a new set of Red Eye brand protectors in my camper just last Saturday. I noticed the when they were seated all the way in the hub, they seemd to be pushing on the washer, which made the bearings tight. I took a grinder and "shortened" the lip of the protector a bit.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Wrong bearing or damaged race during installation. Improper wheel bearing adjustment is also evident. There is no magic 1/4 or 1/2 turn setting. You preload the bearing to make sure the races are set. You then back off the nut and run it back finger tight. If the hole in the spindle and the notch in the nut are in perfect alignment insert the cotter pin. If not, back the nut off to the next nearest match up and insert the pin. At that setting you should feel a very slight amount of freeplay in the bearing. No freeplay is bad.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Wrong bearing or damaged race during installation. Improper wheel bearing adjustment is also evident. There is no magic 1/4 or 1/2 turn setting. You preload the bearing to make sure the races are set. You then back off the nut and run it back finger tight. If the hole in the spindle and the notch in the nut are in perfect alignment insert the cotter pin. If not, back the nut off to the next nearest match up and insert the pin. At that setting you should feel a very slight amount of freeplay in the bearing. No freeplay is bad.

You probably missed the part where I explained that once I removed the Buddy Bearings the heating stopped. Now my issue is getting that cutter pin so flush with the nut that it wont touch the inside wall of the bearing buddy...

I appreciate you took your time to answer.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Just a note, all tapered bearings need a certain amount of preload, they should not have noticeable play at the wheel's edge. Bearing play can lead to race damage. If there is play in the bearing, only a few rollers are supporting the load at a given time, if the bearing has preload, the weight is distributed evenly about the race. A loose bearing also experiences a hammering effect on every bump or imperfections in the road.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

I disagree. I've posted a major trailer manufacturers bearing adjustment procedure many times and it specifically disagrees with the "no free play" statement. In fact free play on a tapered bearing is recommended in the range of .001 to .005 inch.

Here is an excerpt from another trailer suppliers procedure:

To pre-load the bearings, install the spindle washer and spindle nut onto the spindle with the hub and bearings in place. Tighten the spindle nut finger tight (until snug) and then with channel-lock pliers or a crescent wrench, tighten the spindle nut another 1/4 turn or about 15 to 20 ft pounds of torque. Now turn the hub five to ten revolutions. This will fully seat the races. Now loosen the spindle nut very loose, then re-snug to finger tight, and engage the nut retaining device.

And another:

Final Castle Nut Adjustment: To make sure the hub is seated properly, back off the castle nut until it is loose. Then tighten the castle nut back up snug, until it stops. Look to see where the cotter pin hole lines up with one of the notches on the nut. On hubs that use the tang washer or cage to lock the nut, you will have to eyeball it. Then back the nut off one notch, so that cotter pin will fit through the castle nut. Install the cotter pin and then spin and rock the hub. When you rock the hub you should feel the hub barely moving front to back. Try experimenting by loosening the castle nut one more notch to feel the difference in the play in the hub. Then install the wheel and rock the hub again. On the outside edge of the tire, the movement should not be more than 1/4" inch. Any play should be barley noticeable. Once satisfied with the adjustment, it is time to secure the cotter pin. Push the pin through the hole on the end of the spindle and through the notches on the nut. Then split the bottom of the pin to the left and right.

 

[OhWellcraft]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

When I did my bearings I had the same clearance problems with the cotter pins. The only way I could solve was to bend the cotter pins out over the end of the spindle instead of left/right over the flats of the nut. It also positioned the cotter pin in such a way that being turned 90 deg. it let it sit a bit lower in the notch of the castle nut so clearance of the eye in the cotter pin wasn't a problem either. You may already do it this way but if not it seems to have solved my problems.

 

[ron7000]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

No freeplay is bad.
In fact free play on a tapered bearing is recommended in the range of .001 to .005 inch.

really?

do you even think about stuff you are told before you propagate it?

classic iboats

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Yes I do. I think the trailer, auto, and bearing manufacturers know what they are talking about. You are disagreeing, so show me where it says tapered bearings need preload "in operation". Yes they need preload to seat the races. That is not where the bearings should be set for normal operation. I am certainly open to discussion. But when I read responses to posts that i find contradictory to known procedures, I will raise the point for discussion. i'm not forcing anyone to change what they are doing. I merely point to documented procedures -- procedures I might add that my current trailers have been set with from the factory. Yes -- I check them at delivery. Never found one wrong yet.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

I've been a Ford tech for 25 years, Ford specs on tapered bearings, which in many cases are the very same bearings as many trailers, recommend anywhere from a 4ft lb to 2 ft lb final torque spec.

Play in a tapered bearing can and will both create excess impact pitting or bearing delamination as well as change wheel alignment.
If a wheel bearing has .005" play, I'd suspect that would add as much as 1/6" of addition toe out which is not good on a straight trailer axle. This can cause uneven tire wear, cupping and if the bearings are loose enough, feathering of the tread.

I've owned boats and trailers for just as many years, I've never had a bearing failure by assembling a trailer with minimal preload. I've run over 30,000 miles on my one work trailer which was repacked and done this way about 10 years back, I just serviced it and replaced nothing but the grease and grease seals.

It has to do with load distribution on all of the rollers vs only a few at a time.

 

[searay3]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

Check out this link on wheel bearing adjustment. http://www.anythingtruck.com/commercial/740-wheel_bearing_adjustment.pdf. Been doing tapered bearing replacements and adjustments for 20+ years....hasn't changed much. Silvertip is dead on. One thing kills tapered bearings...heat. Heat can be caused either by OVER lubricating as these bearings DO NOT require overpacking of the hub. Just pack the bearing itself and install. Bearing buddies can and will easily overlube the bearing causing it to overheat. No grease or grease of the wrong type will fry bearings. Over tightening will cause heat. In the water world, grease not of the marine type with any kind of leak will also heat the bearing as water is an abrasive and marine grease will not be displaced by the water. 001 to 005 is the accepted clearance. Unless you want to see your wheel pass you on the highway, follow the procedures that the manufacturer gives and don't experiment with everybody else's theories....

 

[Pascal]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

really?

do you even think about stuff you are told before you propagate it?

classic iboats

Actually, bearing hubs like those traditionaly used on boat and utility trailers and front spindles on rear wheel drive trucks and cars are designed to be set with 0.001"-0.005" END PLAY (some even up to 0.010"). The reason for this is to give a standard starting point in allowing a decrease in end play and a increase in preload as the vehicle is moved and the bearings are brought to operating temperature.

The relationship of the cones and cups on the spindle and in the hub prevent the bearing cones from moving as the cups (races) are forced outwards toward the rollers in the cones by the expanding hub. The spindle will expand less than the hub because of less mass and less heat input.

Maximum wheel bearing life is achieved when there is a minimal preload at normal bearing operating temperature. If you start with some unknown amount of preload on the bearing system from a cold bearing adjustment, the final preload at operating temperatures is unpredictable.

Spindle/hubs with no brakes are less susceptible to this and may be run with less end play. Follow the axle manufacturers specifications and procedures.

The Stemco example posted by searay3 is an excellent example of the work that parts providers do to ensure that "wheel off" incidents are kept to a minimum - especially on large trucks.

Any one who wishes can access the Timken website. There is a wealth of information there including a bearing course complete with testing and a certificate from the company..... No I don't work for Timken!!

http://www.timken.com

http://www.timken.com/en-us/solutions/automotive/aftermarket/Pages/TimkenTechSeries.aspx

http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledge/ForMaintenanceProfessionals/Pages/default.aspx

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Bearings heating up after change.

To be perfectly fair here, there are a couple of trailer manufacturers, Shorelander is one, that just changed its bearing adjustment to provide a slight preload. I believe it is 11 - 25 inch/pounds. That is not too far off of finger tight however. The issue with wheel bearing preload is how to measure it accurately. Simply adjusting the nut for a specific torque value is not a mesurement of preload. It is simply a torque value. Bearing and axle manufacturers have worked for years with the DOT to develop a way of accurately measuring and setting preload and except for the trucking industry, where lost wheels can and have killed people, there is no easy way to do this. Large truck axles are a different animal so that's where the measurement research occurs. My point, and the only point in this discussion is that every technical article advises, because of this measurement issue, it is best to error on the side of looseness rather than tightness. The long and short of this is that most axle manufacturers use the finger tight method of bearing adjustment which does indeed provide a .001 - .005 inch play. As also pointed out by many bearing manufacturers, there are applications for tapered bearings where preloading is required. The differential of your truck or car is a good example.