Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

[cnr2003]

I'm looking towards the future since I don't really want to deal with restoring my 1976 Starcraft. It's a 22ft. aluminum boat and every part of it except the engine (Mercruiser 165 L6) needs attention.

I found a 1986 19.5 ft. Success Bowrider. This boat is fiberglass and everything in it has been restored already. It has a great running Mercruiser 470 and the outdrive/bellows/gimbal bearing has all been replaced recently.

My question is, if I buy this boat am going to notice a huge power loss going from an inline 6 to an inline 4? I do mostly waterskiing, so the torque of the L6 is nice.

Also, assuming there is space, would swapping my L6 into this boat be worthwhile or would I not see much difference?

 

[DJ]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

Restore the Starcraft! I'm assuming it's aluminum? Yes. Restoring an old AL boat is a breeze as opposed to restoring old f-glass units. Trust me, the fiberglass boat has problems-unseen.

The 470 was a great concept, that's about it. Good concept, good drive. Again, that's about it. Parts are close to impossible and they had "issues".

The old 250 CI will run forever, if maintained. Lots of parts available.

The old "250" in old Starcrafts are few and far between. Much sought after. You have a nice rig. See the post below to get some inspiration.

In my mind the old Starcraft is a beautiful boat. Worth restoration. Especially with the old MC drive and an IL-6. Go for it. Easy-actually.

You can do it. The old Starcraft 16-22' hulls were about perfect. Easy planing and tough. A good find. Rebuild her.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=260400

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

great running Mercruiser 470 and the outdrive/bellows/gimbal bearing has all been replaced recently.

RUN, don't walk, RUN away from any boat with a 470, 485, 3.7, whatever it's called. RUN. Just do a search of the two most recent pages on here and you'll get just 1/1000th of the trouble with these engines.

If you do buy it, be prepared to replace the engine. And that is not easy to say the least, since it's an inline engine and everything made today is a V.

 

[cnr2003]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

Ok, se we have established that the 470 engine is not worth it. If I were to buy that boat, I would plan on swapping my L6 into it, but that may be more work that I can handle.

DJ - I have been following that thread and I have had thoughts of completely restoring it, however, even then it's still too big of a boat than I'd like to have. I'd like something smaller, lighter, but just as powerful.

Here's a pic of the Starcraft. I painted it myself a couple of years ago. The deck needs replaced and I don't know yet how bad the foam is. The top was done with spray on truck bed liner, but it will need to be redone because its starting to flake off. The side panels need replaced and the guages are outdated and flakey. It needs some type of swim platform because its a deep boat and its a pain to get back in from the water. But it will still do 37 mph with a tired prop, four people, and full gear.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

RUN RUN Runaway! from that 470!!! (wasn't that a song of yesteryear?)
Don't buy anything with a 470 in it!! (you can thank us later )

That Starcraft is a VERY nice looking boat. And it has a 250 GM I-6 in it? That's a great combination.....and it's aluminum? KEEP IT!! (no rot, cracks, rotten stringers, transom, etc!!!)

The 230/250/292 GM 6 was probably one of the BEST marine engines ever built. The 230 that was in my old 66 MarkTwain ran for 39 years and never had the head off! (dad bought it new....I was 13!!) I sold it in 2005 and told the guy that bought it to bring it back when he was done with it.....I want it back!!

 

[ncs2929]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

!983 470. just put a new water pump in. re-doing trailer to take more places. Never had any problems. Parts are easy to find. Lots of torque and speed in mine. 20' CC. MOST people who put down a 470 never had one or they new someone that new someone that new someone that had a bad experience. As`most all here will say it all in condition, condition, condition of boat. Was it taken care of. Care and maintenance are the main things.
But that's the nice thing here everyone has an opinion some you like some you don't. I believe it is Tashadaddy that says a 30 year old boat that is well maintained is better than a 2 year old misused boat.
Just my 2 cents.
Nels

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

"Parts are easy to find."

I'm calling half BS on that statement. You may be able to find them, but they cost a ton of money. You haven't bought exhaust manifold/riser or the alternator conversion kit have you? Each of those things I mentioned is at least $300.

You are partially correct, that if maintained properly, they are a decent (rough idling) engine with good power. But the problem is, how do you know if they were maintained well or not?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

Parts are easy to find. MOST people who put down a 470 never had one or they new someone that new someone that new someone that had a bad experience.

Ayuh,.....

Another 470 owner in Denial...........

 

[ncs2929]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

It's all relative. Someone says A boat is a hole in the water to pour money into or something like that. Alternator conversion cost me less than a hundred. Proper care don't need exhaust manifold. Small things here and their but like any senior(old) boat things need fixed. Tune-up $40, water pump $40, oil change $25 and fuel $$$$$$$$$$$$. Like I said it's all in how you take care of it. You can buy a brand new boat or motor and have it take a s..t on you so I'm happy with what I have I would like to have a new $30,0000 boat and $4 or $5 hundred dollars a month payments but instead I have NO payments spend the money on GAS. Ahhh the fun of boating 6 maybe 7 months here in the upper Midwest. Ya gotta luv it.

Nels

B happy with what you have, Not what U want........

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

You are partially correct, that if maintained properly, they are a decent (rough idling) engine with good power. But the problem is, how do you know if they were maintained well or not?

Yeah. all 4 bangers are somewhat "rough" A 230/250/292 I-6 will be FAR smoother than any 4 cyl engine.....and will make more torque too. (my old 150 (230 I6) Mercruiser lasted 39 years without even having the head removed!!)


I would probably take a "470 over an OMC Cobra though...... That way I could at least part out the engine and put something else in there!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

Wow, HT, your scenario of "Would you rather buy an OMC Cobra or a 470 Mercruiser?", should be part of that game, "Would You Rather". You know, like, "Would you rather have bamboo shoots jammed under your nails, or take a hot poker to the eye."

ncs wrote:
"Proper care don't need exhaust manifold. "

Umm, what planet are you from? Exhaust manifold all eventually fail due to rust/corrosion. And on a 470, either they or the riser are made of aluminum, when the other is iron. So the iron one will corrode the aluminum one at their mating point. But you go ahead an believe it will last forever. Then when water starts filling you #4 cylinder, you be on here asking why it's running so much more rough than usual, and what to do with bent valves, head damage, and block damage. Denial is a river in Eygpt, and apparently that's where you do your boating! he he

 

[droptheline]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

WHATEVER U DO DONT LISTEN TO NCS. He will have problems before i can finish this thread. My hobby is buying beautiful boats with blown 470's in them, putting REAL motors in them, and they are a dime a dozen. The aluminum block is the worst idea anyone ever had from mercruiser and the ase. The inline 6 is the best way to go, u can go with the 3.0, great little motor as well, theres a reason that the 470 has a closed cooling system even though its a BOAT and sitting in a huge lake/ocean of coolant, the motor is JUNK, CRAP, GARBAGE, its a revolving door of cam seal leaks, water in the oil, cracked and corroded blocks, and wiring nightmares. Anyone who say diffrent has one that was babied to death and its still just a ticking time bomb, if u like water sport as much as u say dont come close to this motor, ill bet my last dollar it will let u down. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TALKING! GOODLUCK!

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

They are giving away 470's here in NJ.

The catch is you have to take the whole boat.

And to dispose of a boat here costs 400.

Can't believe i did that.

Posted to a old thread.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Power Differences: Mercruiser 165 L6 to Mercruiser 470

My hobby is buying beautiful boats with blown 470's in them, putting REAL motors in them, and they are a dime a dozen.

Ayuh,..... I have the Same Hobby,....

Only difference is,..
I target Classic hulls powered by OMC Stringer drives........